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A point of view regarding the situation of Ameer Muavia [ra] and Hazrath Ali [ra]


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#1 OFFLINE   Ameen

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Posted 16 April 2010 - 06:58 PM

Assalaamo-Alaikum my dear brothers. Today we are going to talk about Abu-Sufyan [ra]. Here is a man who did not accept the Prophet [pbuh] as a messenger of Allah. Here is a man who did not accept Islam as the final revelation. Here is a man who saw the Prophet [pbuh] and Islam as an insult to his forefathers religion and reputation. Here is a man who saw the Prophet [pbuh] and Islam as a threat to his business,community and his reputation as a tribal leader. Here is a man who was very hostile to the Prophet [pbuh] and his followers for many years. Here is a man who fought many wars with the Prophet [pbuh] and organised many wars against the Prophet [pbuh] and the Muslims for many years. Here is a man who was at war with the Prophet [pbuh] in every field at any circumstance for twenty years. Here is a man   who eventually faced defeat at the hands of the Prophet [pbuh] and by the Muslims.After facing defeat this man accepted Islam and the Prophet [pbuh] to save his own skin. This man accepted Islam after losing the holy city of Mecca. This man accepted Islam after the taking of the Holy city of Mecca by the Prophet [pbuh] and the Muslim army.Abu-Sufyans [ra] son Ameer Muavia [ra] still refused to accept the Prophet [pbuh] and Islam so he escaped to Yemen. When Yemen was taken by the Prophet [pbuh] and the Muslim army Ameer Muavia [ra] tried to escape but this time was captured. Fear of death and to save his skin he finally accepted Islam. One thing you have to keep in mind is that Abu-Sufyan [ra] and his son Ameer Muavia [ra] fought many many wars with the Prophet [pbuh] and his cousin Hazrath Ali [ra]. Both sides had cut down into pieces each others loved ones and relations during battle. One side did it in the name of their forefathers and family honour and the other side did it in the name of Allah and Islam. Bad blood was already there even after accepting Islam. Why? Because you have to look at the nature and circumstances of acceptance. Now further down the line after the Prophet [pbuh] passed away Ameer Muavia [ra] did not start anything with his former arch enemy Hazrath Ali [ra] because it would clearly come out as grudge in the name of vengeance and everybody would turn against Ameer Muavia [ra]. Also there was no available excuse to start anything with HazrathAli [ra] under which this grudge could be kept hidden. Hazrath Ali [ra] also kept a low profile during the first three Khulafas time which left Ameer Muavia [ra] with no excuse to take out his grudge and feed his hatred in the name of vengeance. It all kicked off When Hazrath Ali [ra] came into power through a vast majority by a major landslide and became the fourth rightly guided Khalif of the Muslims. As soon as Hazrath Ali [ra] came into power why do you think he moved the Capital from The holy city of Madeena to Kufa? Because he knew his arch enemies would rebel against him. Now my questions are who was Ameer Muavia [ra ] to threaten the government that if you dont meet are demands we will start a fight? What right did Ameer Muavia [ra] have to demand [Kisas] justice for Hazrath Usman [ra]? This was Nailas [ra] job who was Hazrath Usmans [ra] wife and his next of kin. Who gave Ameer Muavia [ra] the authority to deal with this? Why is there no statement in Islamic history  from Naila [ra] regarding the murder of Hazrath Usman [ra]? Why is there no statement from Naila [ra] regarding Hazrath Usmans [ra] killers when she was present at the incident and had two of her fingers cut off while protecting her husband? When Ameer Muavia [ra] took on this matter without any given authority why wasnt this matter dealt with in a civilised and sensible manner? Rather than risking and putting into danger the welfare and reputation of Islam and the safety and benefit of the Muslims. Ok according to some people Ameer Muavia [ra] was a noble and good person he just wanted justice for Hazrath Usman [ra] and his killers brought to justice.ok tell me if Ameer Muavia [ra] was that good and noble,a man who wanted justice then answer me this when Hazrath Usman [ra] was elected Khalif why didnt  Ameer Muavia [ra] demand justice for Hazrath Umar [ra] and ask for his killers to be brought to justice in a smilar manner?Why didnt Ameer Muavia [ra] put the murder of Hazrath Umar [ra] and demand his killers to be handed over to him to Hazrath Usman [ra]? Or was Hazrath Umar [ra] not important as Hazrath Usman [ra]? People this was a golden opportunity [Hazrath Usmans [ra] murder] for Ameer Muavia [ra] to rebel against his former arch enemy Hazrath Ali [ra]. This was a perfect opportunity for Ameer Muavia [ra] to feed his grudge and fuel his hatred in the name of vengeance against his former arch enemy the fourth Khalif of the Muslims including Ameer Muavia [ra] himself.I say this again where is the sense and logic in fighting so many feuds and battles and losing thousands of lives just to bring a few killers to justice? Or are we calling Hazrath Ali [ra] as the fourth rightly guided khalif of the Muslims,a member of [Haq-Char-Yaar] and then accusing him of harbouring killers? This is being two faced! This is hypochracy! This is doble standerds! I shall leave it for now. Tell me do we have the same right to rebel against the local authorities or the government if our demands are not met or if things do not go our way? Wasslaam.

#2 OFFLINE   Ali Shah Hussain

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Posted 16 April 2010 - 11:09 PM

[quote name='Ameen' date='16 April 2010 - 06:58 PM' timestamp='1271444315' post='80989']
[size="3"]Assalaamo-Alaikum my dear brothers. Today we are going to talk about Abu-Sufyan [ra]. Here is a man who did not accept the Prophet [pbuh] as a messenger of Allah. Here is a man who did not accept Islam as the final revelation. Here is a man who saw the Prophet [pbuh] and Islam as an insult to his forefather's religion and reputation. Here is a man who saw the Prophet [pbuh] and Islam as a threat to his business,community and his reputation as a tribal leader. Here is a man who was very hostile to the Prophet [pbuh] and his followers for many years. Here is a man who fought many wars with the Prophet [pbuh] and organised many wars against the Prophet [pbuh] and the Muslims for many years. Here is a man who was at war with the Prophet [pbuh] in every field at any circumstance for twenty years. Here is a man who eventually faced defeat at the hands of the Prophet [pbuh] and by the Muslims.After facing defeat this man accepted Islam and the Prophet [pbuh] to save his own skin. This man accepted Islam after losing the holy city of Mecca. This man accepted Islam after the taking of the Holy city of Mecca by the Prophet [pbuh] and the Muslim army.Abu-Sufyan's [ra] son Ameer Muavia [ra] still refused to accept the Prophet [pbuh] and Islam so he escaped to Yemen. When Yemen was taken by the Prophet [pbuh] and the Muslim army Ameer Muavia [ra] tried to escape but this time was captured. Fear of death and to save his skin he finally accepted Islam. One thing you have to keep in mind is that Abu-Sufyan [ra] and his son Ameer Muavia [ra] fought many many wars with the Prophet [pbuh] and his cousin Hazrath Ali [ra]. Both sides had cut down into pieces each others loved ones and relations during battle. One side did it in the name of their forefathers and family honour and the other side did it in the name of Allah and Islam. Bad blood was already there even after accepting Islam. Why? Because you have to look at the nature and circumstances of acceptance. Now further down the line after the Prophet [pbuh] passed away Ameer Muavia [ra] did not start anything with his former arch enemy Hazrath Ali [ra] because it would clearly come out as grudge in the name of vengeance and everybody would turn against Ameer Muavia [ra]. Also there was no available excuse to start anything with HazrathAli [ra] under which this grudge could be kept hidden. Hazrath Ali [ra] also kept a low profile during the first three Khulafas time which left Ameer Muavia [ra] with no excuse to take out his grudge and feed his hatred in the name of vengeance. It all kicked off When Hazrath Ali [ra] came into power through a vast majority by a major landslide and became the fourth rightly guided Khalif of the Muslims. As soon as Hazrath Ali [ra] came into power why do you think he moved the Capital from The holy city of Madeena to Kufa? Because he knew his arch enemies would rebel against him. Now my questions are who was Ameer Muavia [ra ] to threaten the government that if you don't meet are demands we will start a fight? What right did Ameer Muavia [ra] have to demand [Kisas] justice for Hazrath Usman [ra]? This was Naila's [ra] job who was Hazrath Usman's [ra] wife and his next of kin. Who gave Ameer Muavia [ra] the authority to deal with this? Why is there no statement in Islamic history from Naila [ra] regarding the murder of Hazrath Usman [ra]? Why is there no statement from Naila [ra] regarding Hazrath Usman's [ra] killers when she was present at the incident and had two of her fingers cut off while protecting her husband? When Ameer Muavia [ra] took on this matter without any given authority why wasn't this matter dealt with in a civilised and sensible manner? Rather than risking and putting into danger the welfare and reputation of Islam and the safety and benefit of the Muslims. Ok according to some people Ameer Muavia [ra] was a noble and good person he just wanted justice for Hazrath Usman [ra] and his killers brought to justice.ok tell me if Ameer Muavia [ra] was that good and noble,a man who wanted justice then answer me this when Hazrath Usman [ra] was elected Khalif why didn't Ameer Muavia [ra] demand justice for Hazrath Umar [ra] and ask for his killers to be brought to justice in a smilar manner?Why didn't Ameer Muavia [ra] put the murder of Hazrath Umar [ra] and demand his killers to be handed over to him to Hazrath Usman [ra]? Or was Hazrath Umar [ra] not important as Hazrath Usman [ra]? People this was a golden opportunity [Hazrath Usman's [ra] murder] for Ameer Muavia [ra] to rebel against his former arch enemy Hazrath Ali [ra]. This was a perfect opportunity for Ameer Muavia [ra] to feed his grudge and fuel his hatred in the name of vengeance against his former arch enemy the fourth Khalif of the Muslims including Ameer Muavia [ra] himself.I say this again where is the sense and logic in fighting so many feuds and battles and losing thousands of lives just to bring a few killers to justice? Or are we calling Hazrath Ali [ra] as the fourth rightly guided khalif of the Muslims,a member of [Haq-Char-Yaar] and then accusing him of harbouring killers? This is being two faced! This is hypochracy! This is doble standerds! I shall leave it for now. Tell me do we have the same right to rebel against the local authorities or the government if our demands are not met or if things do not go our way? Wasslaam.[/size]


Ameen we wont discuss the faith of Abu Sufyan and Ameer Mawyia[may Allah be please both of them] as you have attested by yours ownself that they have accepted Islam to save their skin right? so now what about the present Iran which had Sunni majority was turned forceably by safvides into shiaism? now they cliam to be the champion of Islam?what is yours answer to this question?

You know that Abu Sufyan (r.a) was appionted governor of Najran no one else but Prophet(pbuh) himself?His house was declared safe whomso ever entered into his house by Prophet(pbuh)?Prophet(pbuh) got married to his daughter umme Habbiba (r.a) the mothers of the believers?if you are going to deny that she wasnt the mother of the believers then you are not believer?i know you know this fact but you dont care,ignoring clear verses of Quran?
The Prophet is closer to the believers than their ownselves, and his wives are their mothers. (Quran, 33:6)

(110:2) and you see people entering Allah's religion in multitudes. This verse of Quran is attestation of the believe of every single person who has believed before or after fall of Mecca including Abu Sufyan(r.a) and Ameer Mauwyia(r.a),though there are some reports that Ameer Mauwyia (r.a) has accepted Islam before fall of Mecca but here we will rely on Quranic verse.

Another big proof and to seal yours polemical approch that Imam Hassan(r.a) wouldnt have given up Khalafat to Ameer Mauwyia(r.a) if he wasnt fit for it,what do you think Imam Hassan (r.a) would give Khalafat to the person who is disbeliever?hypocrate?enemy of Islam?come on by saying that you making the great personality of Imam Hassan(r.a) to be agiasnt Islam.dont you?

Hazrat Umer Farooq(r.a) killer was already punished and even the conspirator with the killer was killed by Obeidullah bin Omer(r.a) got it?

I am woundering why you forget that Talib bin abi talib brother of Hazrat Ali (r.a) was on the side of Kufr and fought agianst Prophet(pbuh) and got killed,no doubt Abu Talib has helped right from Prophet (pbuh) childhood till Abu Talid was died but Abu Talib never accepted Islam,this is proved in yours own books.

Hazrat Ali (r.a) own brother Aqeel(r.a) was on Ameer Mauwyia
(r.a) side and Ameer Mauwyia brother Ziyad(r.a) was on Ali(r.a) side..so dont be shocked now.

Anyway you have said in yours comments that
[Here is a man who fought many wars with the Prophet [pbuh] and organised many wars against the Prophet [pbuh] and the Muslims for many years.] who were the Muslims with Prophet Mohammad(pbuh)?Shabah Compinions you mean?i am glad truth comes out from yours mouth,keep it up you will get guidence Inshallah.

No doubt Ameer Mauwyia(r.a) has got the right under Shariah being his cousin to ask for Qisas.

Why you didnt read in Najul balagha where Hazrat Ali(r.a) said in one sermon that the killer of Usman(r.a) has become our masters?You msut have read read cause Shias rarely read Quran if they do they read 33:33 interestingly not full verse but the last part..to remove.. that part only and you must have remembered this half verse by heart as well,i bet you do,coming to the point you never have missed to read  Najul balagha.

In another sermon Hazrat Ali(r.a) said that Mauwyia(r.a)  is same believer as himself....go and read yours more authentic book then Quran for you and then make a objection...read and please act on this verse (104:1) Woe to every fault-finding backbiter.


[url="http://uk.wrs.yahoo.com/_ylt=A1f4cfvx48hLp1oAIUFLBQx.;_ylu=X3oDMTBybWpoN25zBHNlYwNzcgRwb3MDMgRjb2xvA2lyZAR2dGlkAw--/SIG=11otqr5d5/EXP=1271543153/**http%3a//www.answers.com/topic/polemic"]
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#3 OFFLINE   swords_of_sunnah

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Posted 17 April 2010 - 09:33 AM

Ameen do you think that you can fool sunnis by presenting the shia historical view of a companion of prophet(saw)??? hah only a fool could think that....


Here is what the sunni biography of hz abu sufyan ibn harb(ra)

Abu Sufyan Ibn Harb was a warrior who fought beside the Prophet (pbuh). It was during the battle of Al Taef that Abu Sufyan?s eye was injured. So he went up to the Prophet (pbuh) and said:

?This is my eye, it has been injured for the sake of Allah and Islam.?

The Prophet replied and said:

?Which would you prefer: An eye in heaven or shall I pray to Allah that he brings it back??..

He said: ?Certainly an eye in heaven.?

Abu Sufyan later lost his other eye in a fight on the day of the battle of Yarmouk.

This is a story about one of the Sahaba who opposed Islam and the Prophet (pbuh) for 21 years and his name in the minds of Muslims is subconsciously affiliated with kufr (disbelief in Islam). Once he embraced the religion of Islam, however, he became a completely different person who gladly gave up his eye for Islam only a few weeks after becoming a Muslim.
Allah is the MAULA of those who believe, whereas the disbelievers have no MAULA (Quran 47:11)

HASBUNALLAHU WA NEMAL WAKEEL, NEMAL MAULA WA NEMAN NASEER
Translation: "Allah (Alone) is Sufficient for us, and He is the Best Disposer of affairs (for us); what an Excellent Maula (Patron, Lord) and what an Excellent Helper!

#4 OFFLINE   swords_of_sunnah

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Posted 17 April 2010 - 09:48 AM

One point I wanted to make here is that, always the shias try to mix and present the two different abu sufyans... One was Abu sufyan ibn harith who was from banu hashim and was foster brother of prophet(saw), but after declaration of prophethood of mjuhamed(saw) he became his stonch enemy and All what rude and rough words of his noted in history books are presented by shias as though they were said by Abu sufyan ibn harb (father of hz muawiyah) who was from banu umayyah.

Abu Sufyan Ibn Al-Harith (not the father of hz muawiyah)
http://www.sahaba.ne...showpage&pid=27
Allah is the MAULA of those who believe, whereas the disbelievers have no MAULA (Quran 47:11)

HASBUNALLAHU WA NEMAL WAKEEL, NEMAL MAULA WA NEMAN NASEER
Translation: "Allah (Alone) is Sufficient for us, and He is the Best Disposer of affairs (for us); what an Excellent Maula (Patron, Lord) and what an Excellent Helper!

#5 OFFLINE   swords_of_sunnah

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Posted 17 April 2010 - 10:02 AM

For sunni brothers who want to read the biography of hz abu sufyan ibn harb( father of hz muawiyah) read from this book:


Encyclopaedia of Holy Prophet and Companions
By Shahid Ashraf

http://books.google.... sufyan&f=false


(page 245 - 258)
Allah is the MAULA of those who believe, whereas the disbelievers have no MAULA (Quran 47:11)

HASBUNALLAHU WA NEMAL WAKEEL, NEMAL MAULA WA NEMAN NASEER
Translation: "Allah (Alone) is Sufficient for us, and He is the Best Disposer of affairs (for us); what an Excellent Maula (Patron, Lord) and what an Excellent Helper!

#6 OFFLINE   Fatah-Momin

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Posted 17 April 2010 - 07:07 PM

View PostAmeen, on 16 April 2010 - 06:58 PM, said:

Assalaamo-Alaikum my dear brothers. Today we are going to talk about Abu-Sufyan [ra]. Here is a man who did not accept the Prophet [pbuh] as a messenger of Allah.
But he was among the first to attest to high character and status of the prophet[saw] to roman governor

Quote

Here is a man who did not accept Islam as the final revelation
It is amazing that he took shahada at the blessed hand of RasoolAllah[saw] and you deny that.

Quote

Here is a man who saw the Prophet [pbuh] and Islam as an insult to his forefather's religion and reputation
.
And still you could not post even one hostile incident gainst RasoolAllah[saw] instigated directly by Hz. Abu Sufyan[ra] from early maki life

Quote

Here is a man who saw the Prophet [pbuh] and Islam as a threat to his business,community and his reputation as a tribal leader
.
So to protect his business he lead kufar in batle of badr, right?

Quote

Here is a man who was very hostile to the Prophet [pbuh] and his followers for many years. Here is a man who fought many wars with the Prophet [pbuh] and organised many wars against the Prophet [pbuh] and the Muslims for many years. Here is a man who was at war with the Prophet [pbuh] in every field at any circumstance for twenty years. Here is a man who eventually faced defeat at the hands of the Prophet [pbuh] and by the Muslims.After facing defeat this man accepted Islam and the Prophet [pbuh] to save his own skin. This man accepted Islam after losing the holy city of Mecca
.
For all this hostility RasoolAllah[saw] rewarded Abu Sufyan[ra] by declaring his house as abode of peace at time of battle of Makkah, and house of Abu Talib was never given this distinction.

Quote

This man accepted Islam after the taking of the Holy city of Mecca by the Prophet [pbuh] and the Muslim army.Abu-Sufyan's [ra] son Ameer Muavia [ra] still refused to accept the Prophet [pbuh] and Islam so he escaped to Yemen. When Yemen was taken by the Prophet [pbuh] and the Muslim army Ameer Muavia [ra] tried to escape but this time was captured. Fear of death and to save his skin he finally accepted Islam.

Please provied reference

Quote

his son Ameer Muavia [ra] fought many many wars with the Prophet [pbuh]

This is a very important point please post name of these battles with evidence and reference from authentic historic books.


#7 OFFLINE   Ali Shah Hussain

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Posted 17 April 2010 - 11:59 PM

View Postswords_of_sunnah, on 17 April 2010 - 10:02 AM, said:

<br>For sunni brothers who want to read the biography of hz abu sufyan ibn harb( father of hz muawiyah) read from this book:<br><br><br><b>Encyclopaedia of Holy Prophet and Companions</b><br> By Shahid Ashraf<br><br><a href="http://books.google....an&#38;f=false" class="bbc_url" title="External link" rel="nofollow">http://books.google....r><br><br>(page 245 - 258)<br>
<br><br>Salam Brother Fatah .<br><br> &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; I am new to this forum, You and yours mates are doing great job by exposing these Rafadis,They are&nbsp; using name of Islam just to dent it badly,Their hearts are full of hate for Prophet,Ahlelbayt,Compinions and Muslims.<br><br>Oh they refer every single Verse of Quran to dispute,every Hadees they&nbsp; refer to dispute.they are problematic,trouble maker,when you start debates with them then Wallahi they will use emotionalism in their debates,Nauzballah they expliot the Mtrydom of Imam Hussain(r.a).They cant present or prove their <br>claim from Quran or Sunnah.They are living in imaginative world with their Imamate religion(Founder Ibne Saba) instead of Religion Islam( founder Last Prophet Hazrat Mohamamd Mustafa (s.a.w)<br><br>One interesting thing is that if they say that this person or group of person wasnt good to Prophet(pbuh) or Momin then know it in matter of fact he would be exactly opposite what they are saying.He would be Momin,dearest and nearest to the Prophet Mohamamd(pbuh),Like Sadique Akbar,Farooque azam,Usman Ghani,Ummel Momineen Ayesha Sadiqa&amp;Hafsa(may Allah be please with them all)<br><br>They will attack brave and knowledgable Compinions more,just to give satisfaction to their&nbsp; burning jealousy hearts.<br><br>May Allah reward you and yours friends,You are the defenders of Prophet(pbuh), Prophet's Compinions and His family.

Edited by Ali Shah Hussain, 18 April 2010 - 01:11 AM.


#8 OFFLINE   Efendi

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Posted 18 April 2010 - 03:34 PM

Quote

This man accepted Islam after the taking of the Holy city of Mecca by the Prophet [pbuh] and the Muslim army.Abu-Sufyans [ra] son Ameer Muavia [ra] still refused to accept the Prophet [pbuh] and Islam so he escaped to Yemen. When Yemen was taken by the Prophet [pbuh] and the Muslim army Ameer Muavia [ra] tried to escape but this time was captured. Fear of death and to save his skin he finally accepted Islam.

This part is lie obviously. As we know there are two points of view when Muawiyah (r.a) accepted islam. 1-st during hudaybiya secretly, and after conquest openly. Or simply after conquest.

Quote

Hazrath Usman [ra] was elected Khalif why didnt Ameer Muavia [ra] demand justice for Hazrath Umar [ra] and ask for his killers to be brought to justice in a smilar manner?
Ignorance isn't something that you should be proud for. Because killer of Umar (r.a) was killed after his death, and his son Ubeydullah even killed some other persons who were (possibly) involved.

Amazing to see two letters r.a which you are writing after name of Muawiyah. Ya rafidi, that some kind of taqiyah fatality? May Allah disgrace you for your hypocrisy.


#9 OFFLINE   Fatah-Momin

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Posted 19 April 2010 - 07:29 AM

It appears like all Shia Ameen sahib too is business of making unsubstantiated statements, he is nowhere to be found.

#10 OFFLINE   Fatah-Momin

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Posted 21 April 2010 - 02:39 AM

Ameen you came and missed this topic which require your immediate attention.

#11 OFFLINE   Fatah-Momin

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Posted 23 April 2010 - 06:03 PM

Ameen before you move on to a different topic, post evidence that Ameerul Momineen Hz. Ameer Mauwiyah [ra] participated in battles against RasoolAllah[saw] as you claimed.





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