63 replies to this topic

[tRUEMOMIN]

My little question to all those who dont keep any soft corner for yazid.     forget about references just use your own brain. karbaala incident happen in 10th muhurrum and Hussain® left from makkah.  just 30 days eariler there was hajj going on in makkah and all around world people visted makkah for hajj. Why alll not follow hussain® and went to karbaala. why only 72 people left for karabalaa. Why alll hajii went back. Why few shahaba insist hussain® not to go to karbaala and why that sahababai® didnot follow hussain®. All agree on that written statement that hussain® offer to let me go back to where i come from.    while in haidths you read that whoever run from jihad consider themself in hell.   if he comes with jihad intenstion why he has given offer to go back.

[Offeror]

Fatah Momin Brother,

So you are rejecting all the links I gave you, right?
You only accept what you label as "classic" sources.
You only accept a report as sound if it matches with your opinion. Right?
I gave my links.

Well why don't you give your links that show that Yazid was not a fasiq.
Anything that clashes with our opinion becomes a weak report, not the attitude of a logical person.

If you label anything as unreliable you must cite specific classic reference that says that the report is "Weak".
Your personal opinion regarding weak narrations is not a good enough argument.

[Fatah-Momin]

I have only seen one link that was to a video on youtube and if that was the only evidence you had then I feel sorry for you.  Tahireul Qadri is a known as a dancing POP. I  have read wikipedia too. if you base your information on that as your only source I pity you. Here is how one post evidence. You are trying to deceive members on the board.

http://islamic-forum...?showtopic=8726

http://islamic-forum...?showtopic=8980

Edited by Fatah-Momin, 27 December 2010 - 09:42 AM.

[Offeror]

Fatah-Momin, on 27 December 2010 - 09:24 AM, said:

<br />I have only seen one link that was to a video on youtube and if that was the only evidence you had then I feel sorry for you. Tahireul Qadri is a known as a dancing POP. I have read wikipedia too. if you base your information on that as your only source I pity you. Here is how one post evidence. You are trying to deceive members on the board.<br /><br /><a href='http://islamic-forum...?showtopic=8726' class='bbc_url' title='External link' rel='nofollow external'>http://islamic-forum...pic=8726</a><br /><br /><a href='http://islamic-forum...?showtopic=8980' class='bbc_url' title='External link' rel='nofollow external'>http://islamic-forum...pic=8980</a><br />

<br /><br /><br />

By link I meant references.
You are rejecting the references. Its very strange the way you are reacting to my posts.
Instead of reading the references properly and evaluating them, you are beating about the bush, talking about an error in my writing.

There were a few references I gave u. You gave no response or comment on them except that you need classic sources.

I am assuring you that I am not arguing for the sake of it, and I have talked with a lot of non-Muslims and discussed theism issues.
You attitude is just as negative as theirs. A Muslim must remain open to any source that is an Islamic source. Simple as that!

[al-muslim as-salafi]

In Defence of Yazeed ibn Mu�awiyyah
(Rahimahullah)


Part 1

Compiled
Series compilers and Trans: Abu Hibbaan & Abu Khuzaimah Ansaari

Introductory

Ameer al-Mu�mineen Yazeed ibn Mua�wiyyah was a believer with a correct and sound Aqeedah (belief) and accusing him to be a disbeliever is absolutely incorrect and a pure slander.

�Yazeed�s Islaam was correct as he was a believer.� (Wafyaan al-A�yaan Wa Abnaa Ibnaa az-Zamaan (1/328), Mir�atul-Janaan Wa-Ibratul-Yaqzaan Fee Ma�arifah Maa Ya�abir Min Hawaadith az-Zamaan (3/177).

Shaikh ul-Islaam al-Imaam Ibn Taymiyyah (death 728 Hijree) said,

�Yazeed was from the teenage muslims he was neither a disbeliever nor a Zindeeq (heretic) he used to give a lot (of wealth in charity) and he was brave. He did not have the evil and bad things which the enemies attribute to him.� (al-Waseeyatul-Kubraa (pg.300), Majmoo al-Fataawa (2/41).

He also said,

�This man (Yazeed) was a king from amongst the muslim kings and he was not like this and that (as the people claim).� (Minhaaj as-Sunnah (2/247).

He also said,

�Rather the Islaam of Mu�awiyyah, Yazeed, Banee Ummayyah and Banee Abbaas is established with Tawatur (ie so many narration's) and similarly their praying, fasting and Jihaad against the non-believers is also established.� (Minhaaj as-Sunnah (1/163)

Abdul-Hayy Husainee said,

�Attributing Fisq (open sinning) and disbelief to Yazeed ibn Mu�awiyyah is unlawful (haraam) and considering this to be lawful (ie these attributions to him) are unlawful (haraam).� (Nazhatul-Khawaatir Wa Bahjatul Masaama�a Wan-Nawaazir (7/514).

Ibn Hajr al-Makkee ash-shafaee (death 974 Hijree) said,

�Yazeed was a believer from amongst the believers.� (as-Sawaa�iq al-Meharqah (pg.223).

Mulla Alee Qaaree hanafee (death 1014 Hijree) said,

�Yazeed having Eemaan is not something which is hidden.� (Sharh Fiqhul al-Akbar (pg.88).

Ibn Khaldoon malikee (death 732 Hijree) said,

�A majority of the companions were with Yazeed and they did not hold it permissible to rebel against him.� (Muqaddimah Ibn Khaldoon (pg.217).

None of the four Imaams and the authors of the six well-known books of hadeeth declared Yazeed to be a disbeliever or a heretic

[al-muslim as-salafi]

In Defence of Yazeed ibn Mu�awiyyah
(Rahimahullah)

Part 2

Compiled
Series compilers and Trans: Abu Hibbaan & Abu Khuzaimah Ansaari


What follows is a list of some of the scholars who held various opinions about Yazeed ibn Mua�wiyyah.

1. Imaam Muhammad Ghazzalee (d.505H)
Imaam Muhammad Gazzalee said he was a muslim with a correct aqeedah and a complete muslim and it is not permissible in the sharee�ah to curse and abuse him.

(see Ahyaa al-Uloom (3/108), Wafyaat al-A�yaan (1/328), Miratul-Janaan (3/176), al-Bidaayah Wan-Nihaayah (12/173), Hayaat al-Haiwaan (2/176), Sawaa�iq al-Meharqah (pg.222), Dhuu al-Ma�alee (pg.49), Sharh Fiqhul-Akbar (pg.87), Nibraas (pg.551), Shadhraat adh-Dhahab Fee Akhbaar Minal Madhab (1/69), Tafseer Rooh al-Ma�anee (13/73), Fataawa Azeezee (1/100), Fataawa Abdul-Hayy (1/60), Aqaa�id al-Islaam (pg.223).

2. Imaam Qaadhee Abu Bakr ibn al-Arabee Maalikee (d.543H)
He did not hold permissible the cursing and abusing of Yazeed nor declaring him to be a disbeliever. He said,

�If it is said justice and knowledge are from the conditions of Khilaafah and Yazeed neither had justice or knowledge, then we will say what is the thing by which he have to come to know Yazeed had no justice or knowledge.� (al-Awaasim Minal Qawaasim (pg.222)

He also said,

�Where are those historians who wrote against Yazeed in mentioning alcohol and open sinning, do they not have any shame?� (al-Awaasim Minal Qawaasim (pg.222)

3. Shaikh Abdul-Mugeeth Hanbalee (d.583H)
He was not in favour of cursing Yazeed nor declaring him to be a disbeliever, rather he authored a biography of Yazeed with the title of, �Fadhal Yazeed.�

�and his (Abdul-Mugeeth�s) book �Fadhal Yazeed bin Mu�awiyyah�, in it he has mentioned strange incidences.� (Hidaayatul A�aarifeen Asmaa al-Mu�allifeen Wa Athaar Musannifeen (5/623), al-Bidaayah Wan-Nihaayah (12/328).

Haafidh Ibn Katheer said about him,

�He was from the righteous Hanbalee�s who the common folk referred to.� (al-Bidaayah Wan-Nihaayah (12/328).

Imaam Ibn al-Jawzee said,

�I hope from Allaah that me and Abdul-Mugeeth will be together in Paradise. Muhib ud deen Abul-Baqaa said from this we find (ibn al-Jawzee) knew Abdul-Mugeeth was from the righteous worshippers of Allaah and may he have mercy on both of them.� (Dhail Tabaqaat Hanabillah (1/356) of Ibn Rajab.)

4. Allaamah Abul-Khair Qazwainee. (d.590H)
Imaam Ibn Katheer said,

�After he left Qazwain he went to Baghdaad where he became a teacher in Madrassah Nizaamiyyah and he would admonish and deliver lectures to the people. So on the day of Ashoorah he sat on the minbar to admonish the people, it was said to him to curse Yazeed bin Mu�awiyyah. He replied, �He was but an Imaam Mujtahid.� (al-Bidaayah Wan-Nihaayah (9/13), Risaalah al-Mustarfah Lee-Bayaan Mashoor Kitaab as-Sunnah al-Musharfah (pg.132).

5. Allaamah Ibn as-Saalah (d.646H)
He was also not in favour of cursing Yazeed or saying he was a disbeliever.

Ibn Hajr Makkee writes,

�Ibn Salaah who is from our jurists and scholars of hadeeth, I have seen in his Fataawa that when he was asked concerning the individual who would only curse Yazeed because he ordered the death of Hussain. Then in answer to this he said, according to us Yazeed ordering the death of Hussain is not correct and cursing and abusing Yazeed is not the sign of a believer�..� (as-Sawaa�iq al-Meharqah (pg.222).

6. Shaikh ul-Islaam Imaam Ibn Taymiyyah (d.728H)
He was neither in favour of cursing Yazeed nor declaring him to be a disbeliever. He says,

�And the people who curse Yazeed and other such people like him then it is UPON them to bring evidence,

Firstly: that he (Yazeed) was an open sinner and an oppressor and therefore prove he really was an open sinner and an oppressor. As allowing them to be cursed also needs to be proven that he continued this open sinning and oppression to the end up until his death.

Secondly: Then after this they must prove that it is permissible to curse specific people like Yazeed.�

He goes onto say,

�and the verse, �May the Curse of Allaah be upon the oppressors.� Is a general verse like the verses concerning punishment.�

He goes onto say,

�And the hadeeth of Bukhaari states the first army to wage Jihaad against Constantinople is forgiven and the first army to do Jihaad against Constantinople, their Ameer was Yazeed ibn Mu�waiyyah and the word army entails a specific number and every member of this army is included in this forgiveness���..� (Minhaaj as-Sunnah an-Nabawiyyah Fee Naqdh Kalaam ash-Shee�ah Wal-Qadariyyah (2/252), al-Muntaqa Minhaaj al-Ei�tidaal Fee Naqdh Kalaam ar-Rafdh Wal-Ei�tizaal (pg.290).

7. Haafidh Imaam Ibn Qayyim al-Jawziyyah (d.751H).
Haafidh Ibn Qayyim writes in his book al-Manaar al-Muneef,

�ALL the narration's that mention the censure of Yazeed bin Mu�awiyyah are lies.�

The he goes onto say on the same page,

�ALL the narration's that mention the censure of Mu�awiyyah are lies.� (al-Manaar al-Muneef Fis-Saheeh Wadh-Dha�eef (pg.220).

8. Haafidh Imaam Ibn Katheer (d.774H)
After mentioning the  position of al-Haraasee (of the permissibility of cursing) he mentions his statements and says,

�Imaam Ghazzalee has opposed the attribution of open sinning and tyranny to Yazeed and has prohibited from abusing Yazeed because he was a muslim and it is not established he expressed happiness or joy on the death of Hussain�.� (al-Bidaayah Wan-Nihaayah (12/173).

9. Haafidh Ibn Rajab (d.795H)
Haafidh Ibn Rajab also did not hold the opinion of cursing and declaring Yazeed to be a disbeliever. On the contrary he refute the allegation on Imaam Ahmad bin Hanbal that he cursed Yazeed. So he writes in clear words,

�The statement of Imaam Ahmad only establishes cursing on all of the oppressors and there is no clarification or specification for the permissibility of cursing Yazeed only.� (Dhail Tabaqaat Hanabillah (2/356).

10. Mulla Alee Qaaree (d1014H).
Mulla Alee Qaaree said,

�The majority of the Scholars have prohibited cursing Yazeed and Hajjaaj.� (Mirqaat Sharh Mishkaat (4/52).

Complete article with references: http://ahlulhadeeth....-ahlul-hadeeth/

[Fatah-Momin]

Offeror, on 26 December 2010 - 04:11 AM, said:

Ibn e Kathir al Bidayah Volume 8 says In English here...

"Traditions inform us that Yazeed loved worldly vices, would drink, listen to music, kept the company of boys with no facial hair [civil expression for paedophilia with boys, a form of homo***uality], played drums, kept dogs [civil expression for bestiality], making frogs, bears and monkeys fight. Every morning he used be intoxicated and use to bind monkey with the saddle of a horse and make the horse run."

Though you quote what was stated agains Yazeed Bin Mauwiyah, in the same Volume we find recorded statment of  Hz. Muhammad Bin Hannifiyah[rta]  which is as follows:

Hafiz Ibn Khatir says:
Abdullah bin Matee and his supporters approached Hz. Muhammad bin Hannifiyah[rta] the son of Hz. Ali[ra], and tried to persuade him to break the pledge to Yazeed, Hz. Muhammad bin Hannifiyah[rta] flatly refused. On this Abdullah bin Matee said " Yazeed is Alcoholic, does not establish salah, and exceed the orders of book of Allah." Hz. Muhaamad bin Hannifiyah[rta] replied " The things that you mention, none of these have I seen, I went to Yazeed and I stayed there, I have always found Yazeed punctual of salah, looking for good, defender of deen and sunnah" Abdullah bin Matee and his supporter claimed " Yazeed must doing allthis to show you" Muhammad bin Hannifiyah[rta] said" why should he be scared of me, as anyone of you seen him doing things that you claim, have you your self seen him drinking wine? If he has done this in front of you it mean you too were doing the same act, if not then how can you be witness to which you do not know." Muhammad bin Hannifiyah[rta] said "Allah does not accept this He says: Witness is of reliable people and who have personally witnessed it"[rough translation]. Go I can not support you."
Abdullah bin Matee and his supporters said May be you like to be lead if you desire we will accept you as our leader. Hz. Muhammad bin Hannifiyah[rta] said " When I do not consider your cause to be right, it does not matter if I am lead or I lead people."
Abdullah bin Matee and his supporters said that you have already fought under you father"
Hz. Muhammad bin Hannifiyah[rta] said "first bring a man like my father and people like he fought against.

Al-Bidayan Wal Nihaya, Vol:8, Page No: 632.

Most of what you quote is out of context and references are incomplete. This is the way Shia quote from Muslim source, out of context and incomplete, please find an authentic source.

[AbuMuslimKhorasani]

I don't believe that Yazeed was an unbeliever and a womanizer and I don't believe that his army robbed all the women of Madina and later these women became pregnant. These false accusations are always made by tthe shias and I don't trust them nor any Sunni Muslim should. However, I don't consider him to be a right man as you people are.

Quote

In Defence of Yazeed ibn Mu�awiyyah (Rahimahullah)

I have never seen any scholar saying 'Rahimahullah' or 'Radialllahu anhum' after the name of Yazeed. May I know brother, who gave you the authority to go this far.

[Fatah-Momin]

Imam Ghazali [rta] and some other scholars have said as Yazeed was tabaeen and there is no evidence that he ordered killing of Hz. Hussein[ra] and also there is no proof for other allegations, if any one call him [rta] it is ok, but it not must to say the same, but it is not permitted to curse a Muslim.

[tRUEMOMIN]

Read this book��By Shaykh Abdush Shakoor Lakhnavi (r.a) http://www.4shared.c...Ahle_Sunn.html? and vidoe made in 1983 by molana mosin <a href='http://www.4shared.c..._1983_.htmlpart' class='bbc_url' title='External link' rel='nofollow external'>http://www.4shared.c...3_.htmlpart</a> 2 <a href='http://www.4shared.c...sin_1983_2.html' class='bbc_url' title='External link' rel='nofollow external'>http://www.4shared.c...1983_2.html</a>

Edited by tRUEMOMIN, 28 December 2010 - 11:55 AM.

[swords_of_sunnah]

yazeed was not a good muslim, thats a fact. but yes the shias use this fact to cover their horrible history i.e their betrayal to hz hussain(ra) and their hand in killing him.. but the fact is that there is no authentic report which says that yazeed ordered killing of hz hussain(ra) nor that he was pleased when he came to knew about this unfortunate incident. And there are reports which are contradictory to these reports and all of them(against yazeed and in his favor) are weak. So its better to remain silent on him..and neither to curse him nor to praise him. p.s: rahimullah means may allahs mercy be upon him.. and people use it as a prayer for a muslim, its not a sign of love or praise for the person for whom it is used.. as we are commanded to pray for every muslim.

[swords_of_sunnah]

Also please refer this linK (for every one) http://webcache.goog...n&ct=clnk&gl=ca

[Naqshbandi]

I agree with Swords of Sunnah on this that its better we leave people like Yazeed alone. Instead use our energy in something good like defending the Sahaba and Ahlul Bayt alike. Its a shame to even try to find faults in either of them. Its strange that one vigourously defend the not so good Yazeed and put in all the energy in rejection of famous hadith in favor of Imam Hussain RA. I remember the first time I visited this forum. I used it against Shias but now it has become more of "Fadhaile Ahle Bayt" refutation site. :(

[Offeror]

The matter is simple anyone who thinks Yazeed was a good Muslim, and the rightful Imam of Muslims of his time,He should pray to Allah the Almighty, that he is raised with Yazeed on the Day of Judgement. I'll wish him best of luck!

[swords_of_sunnah]

Offeror, on 28 December 2010 - 01:34 PM, said:

The matter is simple anyone who thinks Yazeed was a good Muslim, and the rightful Imam of Muslims of his time,He should pray to Allah the Almighty, that he is raised with Yazeed on the Day of Judgement. I'll wish him best of luck

what sort of foolish logic is this, if someone THINKS that yazeed was good muslim, then why should he/she pray to be raised up with yazeed..

And do you believe that abu talib was a kaafir.. if you think that he was a muslim, then how about praying that you should be raised up with him... keep supplicating this every time you offer salah..

[Offeror]

swords_of_sunnah, on 28 December 2010 - 04:54 PM, said:

<br />

Offeror, on 28 December 2010 - 01:34 PM, said:

The matter is simple anyone who thinks Yazeed was a good Muslim, and the rightful Imam of Muslims of his time,He should pray to Allah the Almighty, that he is raised with Yazeed on the Day of Judgement. I'll wish him best of luck

<br />what sort of foolish logic is this, if someone THINKS that yazeed was good muslim, then why should he/she pray to be raised up with yazeed..<br /><br />And do you believe that abu talib was a kaafir.. if you think that he was a muslim, then how about praying that you should be raised up with him... keep supplicating this every time you offer salah..<br />

<br /><br /><br />

We are not discussing Hazrat Abu Talib here, are we?
Your response shows only that you are in doubt about Yazeed.
If you had enough confidence in Yazeed's righteousness, then this is the last way in which you would've responded.

[swords_of_sunnah]

Offeror, on 29 December 2010 - 05:23 AM, said:

We are not discussing Hazrat Abu Talib here, are we?

we aren't  but i just used that example to show how foolish logic you are using..

Quote

Your response shows only that you are in doubt about Yazeed.
If you had enough confidence in Yazeed's righteousness, then this is the last way in which you would've responded.

lol moron i said this : yazeed was not a good muslim, thats a fact.

refer previous post..

And do you believe that if someone is truly righteous and prays to Allah that he prays to Allah to be raised up with a person who is not righteous..then will Allah fulfill that request. And vice verse.

[tRUEMOMIN]

my followers always says keep slient on yazid issue. but i have my own search that yazid is very good muslim.  not only muslim rather mommin. There is haidths saying prophet muhammad(SAW) who fight and get victory in rome those people will get jannat now yazid was commodar of that trupe.      Will you reject this haidths.   and at the time of yazid govertment there were over 1000 shahabab® how come some bad is happening and they kept slient. there is haidths best reign  is mine and then shahaba and then tabeeen and taba tabeen, if you decare yazid as kafir or fasiq then how you defend this  haidths.

[Fatah-Momin]

Offeror, on 29 December 2010 - 05:23 AM, said:

swords_of_sunnah, on 28 December 2010 - 04:54 PM, said:

<br />

Offeror, on 28 December 2010 - 01:34 PM, said:

The matter is simple anyone who thinks Yazeed was a good Muslim, and the rightful Imam of Muslims of his time,He should pray to Allah the Almighty, that he is raised with Yazeed on the Day of Judgement. I'll wish him best of luck

<br />what sort of foolish logic is this, if someone THINKS that yazeed was good muslim, then why should he/she pray to be raised up with yazeed..<br /><br />And do you believe that abu talib was a kaafir.. if you think that he was a muslim, then how about praying that you should be raised up with him... keep supplicating this every time you offer salah..<br />

<br /><br /><br />

We are not discussing Hazrat Abu Talib here, are we?
Your response shows only that you are in doubt about Yazeed.
If you had enough confidence in Yazeed's righteousness, then this is the last way in which you would've responded.

Here is how a Shia removes his/her taqeeyah LOL,  this is called comparison you shia regard Abd Manaaf/Abu talib as a imam so you should not have any hesitation in making a dua, yet you are avoiding it.

Edited by Fatah-Momin, 29 December 2010 - 09:08 AM.

[Offeror]

swords_of_sunnah

Allah the Almighty can do anything, so I cannot comment on whether He will fulfill any prayer of yours or mine? Its up to Him.
But yes I've heard something of the sort that people would be following their Imams on that day.

So anyone someone considers as such, he will follow. The question of righteous or not, will remain in the background I guess. Allah the Almighty shall decide.