36 replies to this topic

[Ahlusunnah]

Finally he concluded his rebuttal to this thread by saying

" Yes this is the consequence if commenting before checking the hadith first. This hobby makes them like to refute everything that become for a person who they claim as syiah (this guy never confess he is syiah). The basis is that everything wrote by person who they called syiah must be refuted even with funny statements.

What kind of phenomena is this? None other disease due to new model of nasibi virus. We called them as Neonasibi.

In old time, the hobby of nasibi is to curse ahlul bait escpecially Imam Ali but currect nasibi hobby is to reduce the virtues of ahlul bait, avoid people from hold to ahlul bait and spread hatred everybody who they called as syiah. Even those who are not syiah but love ahlul bait will be accuse syiah untill people become scared to love and defend ahlul bait because afraid to be called syiah

This new model of nasibi is the new form of mutation because old nasibi clearly who cursed ahlul bait will be condemned by majority of ummah. Thus to defend themselves, they adapted by disguising themselve to love ahlul bait but slowly reducing the virtues of ahlul bait [to the extend make them normal] and bit by bit defend the cruelty on ahlul bait with the excuse of defending companion or ijtihad.

May Allah protect us from them and their sick disease

[Ahlusunnah]

Let me post his initial part

His title of the rebuttal is

'Anomaly Hadis Abu Huraira who will not forget? Dilemma of Nasibi

He stated in his introduction

'This is the continuation of previous writing entitle "Can Abu Huraira forget? Anomaly Hadis Abu Hurairah. We extend this article after we see funny nasibis who are in headache to respond to this article. We say it is funny because those nasibis giving excuse that in the hadith, there is no mentioning of Rasulullah [shallallahu ‘alaihi wasallam] said Abu Huraira will never forget. Thus according to the nasibis, hadis of Abu Huraira only show his powerful memory but he can also forget. You can see their respond here

http://islamic-forum...showtopic=15121

.
حَدَّثَنِي إِبْرَاهِيمُ بْنُ الْمُنْذِرِ حَدَّثَنَا ابْنُ أَبِي الْفُدَيْكِ عَنْ ابْنِ أَبِي ذِئْبٍ عَنْ الْمَقْبُرِيِّ عَنْ أَبِي هُرَيْرَةَ رَضِيَ اللَّهُ عَنْهُ قَالَ قُلْتُ يَا رَسُولَ اللَّهِ إِنِّي سَمِعْتُ مِنْكَ حَدِيثًا كَثِيرًا فَأَنْسَاهُ قَالَ ابْسُطْ رِدَاءَكَ فَبَسَطْتُ فَغَرَفَ بِيَدِهِ فِيهِ ثُمَّ قَالَ ضُمَّهُ فَضَمَمْتُهُ فَمَا نَسِيتُ حَدِيثًا بَعْدُ


Narrated Abu Huraira:I said, "O Allah's Apostle! I hear many narrations from you but I forget them." He said, "Spread your covering sheet." I spread my sheet and he moved both his hands as if scooping something and emptied them in the sheet and said, "Wrap it." I wrapped it round my body, and since then I have never forgotten a single Hadith [Shahih Bukhari 4/208 no 3648]

Those nasibis are not ahlusunnah because they are not close to the books of ahlu sunnah. Just see what they saif on the hadith of Abu Huraira, it shows they did not read the hadith from the book of ahlu sunnah. Hadis Abu Hurairad stated he did not forget stated in Shahih Bukhari and Sahih Muslim with clear wording from Rasulullah [shallallahu ‘alaihi wasallam] which is ' will nor forget'

The following is from Sahih Muslim

حدثنا قتيبة بن سعيد وأبو بكر بن أبي شيبة وزهير بن حرب جميعا عن سفيان قال زهير حدثنا سفيان بن عيينة عن الزهري عن الأعرج قال سمعت أبا هريرة يقول إنكم تزعمون أن أبا هريرة يكثر الحديث عن رسول الله صلى الله عليه و سلم والله الموعد كنت رجلا مسكينا أخدم رسول الله صلى الله عليه و سلم على ملء بطني وكان المهاجرون يشغلهم الصفق بالأسواق وكانت الأنصار يشغلهم القيام على أموالهم فقال رسول الله صلى الله عليه و سلم من يبسط ثوبه فلن ينسى شيئا سمعه مني فبسطت ثوبي حتى قضى حديثه ثم ضممته إلي فما نسيت شيئا سمعته منه

Translation: Al-A'raj reported that he heard Abu Huraira as saying: You are under the impression that Abu Huraira transmits so many ahadith from Allah's Messenger (may peace up upon him) ; (bear in mind) Allah is the great Reckoner. I was a poor man and I served Allah's Messenger (may peace be upon him) being satisfied with bare subsistence, whereas the immigrants remained busy with transactions in the bazar; while the Ansar had been engaged in looking after their properties. (He further reported) that Allah's Messenger (may peace be upon him) said : He who spreads the cloth would not forget anything that he would hear from me. I spread my cloth until he narrated something. I then pressed it against my (chest), so I never forgot anything that I heard from him. [Shahih Muslim 4/1939 no 2492]

[kalaam]

Ask the rafidhi

What proof do you have that Abu Haraira (ra) heard the hadith after the first hadith he mentioned in which Abu Huraira (ra) said : فَمَا نَسِيتُ حَدِيثًا بَعْدُ . Prove that he heard the second hadith before this. Has he any proof?

[Hani]

Farid, on 08 November 2011 - 04:57 AM, said:

Quote

We would like to know what his response after seeing the hadith of Sahih  Muslim above. Would he accuse of Abu Huraira lied when he himself state  Nabi shallallahu ‘alaihi wasallam said that will not forget.

Countered by the authentic hadith of Zaid bin Thabit in Mu'ajam Al-Awsat that the Prophet (pbuh) made dua'a for Abu Huraira to have unforgettable knowledge.

You mean this:

أن رجلا جاء إلى زيد بن ثابت فسأله ، فقال له زيد : عليك بأبي هريرة ، فإني بينما أنا وأبو هريرة وفلان في المسجد ندعو الله ونذكره إذ خرج علينا رسول الله صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم حتى جلس إلينا ، فقال : عودوا للذي كنتم فيه ، قال زيد : فدعوت أنا وصاحبي ، فجعل رسول الله صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم يؤمن على دعائنا ، ودعا أبو هريرة فقال : إني أسألك ما سأل صاحباك وأسألك علما لا ينسى ، فقال رسول الله صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم : آمين ، فقلنا : يا رسول الله ونحن نسألك علما لا ينسى فقال : سبقكم بها الغلام الدوسي

Zaid ibn Thabit narrated: A man came to Zaid and asked him so Zaid said: Go ask Abu Huraira because when we were in the mosque making Du'ah and mentioning Allah, the Prophet SAWS came to us and sat with us, he told us to continue what we were doing, Zaid said: The Prophet SAWS started saying "Ameen" to our Du'ah, Abu Huraira made a Du'ah and said: O Allah I ask you what both of my companions asked and I ask you unforgettable knowledge. The Prophet then said "Ameen" so we said: O Rassul-Allah SAWS and we also ask unforgettable knowledge, so he said: al-Dusi has beaten you to it.

Ibn Hajar said the Isnad is good and al-Shawkani said the narrators are thiqat.

As for the angry Indonesian guy, I ask by what right do you call people Nasibis? since when does defending Abu Huraira (ra) makes a person a Nasibi? what strange reasoning, also above we gave you several possibilities,  some said "It could be that he heard that Hadith before the Du'ah" and "it could be that he never forgot the Hadith but decided to not narrate since everyone seems to misunderstand it and he was having a hard time explaining it.", so there are several possibilities as we said, so don't be a Neo-piece of T**sh and act like a spoiled brat who's hell bent on attacking the pious Salaf or accusing Abu Huraira (ra) of inventing the Hadith.

[Ahlusunnah]

TripolySunni, on 08 November 2011 - 03:14 PM, said:

... some said "It could be that he heard that Hadith before the Du'ah".

The guy reply to this statement earlier

He said the du'a happen during the time of the prophet shallallahu 'alaihi wasallam while this case of forgot as witness by Abu Salamah happen after the demise of the prophet shallallahu 'alaihi wasallam

[Abdaal]

The most ironic part is the Indonesian brother denies he is  a 12r Shia. Did he forget that only the 12r Shia as a majority today oppose Abu Huraira (ra), call his supports Nasibis ?

If Muslims are going to debate they have to avoid the taqiyyah. Also all the references he posted are a copy and paste from the 12r Shia sites.

So either he is a 12r Shia who is parroting what the 12r Shia sites have stated or he is a Muslim who has no knowledge of the ahadith sciences.

[Hani]

Ahlusunnah, on 09 November 2011 - 12:54 AM, said:

The guy reply to this statement earlier

He said the du'a happen during the time of the prophet shallallahu 'alaihi wasallam while this case of forgot as witness by Abu Salamah happen after the demise of the prophet shallallahu 'alaihi wasallam

All Human beings forget including prophets, so if a prophet made a Du'ah to Allah that his companion wouldn't forget then that surely would help him but it wouldn't make his memory invincible for eternity, Allah would surely make him forget.

That's my belief at least concerning this matter, it's impossible that he would never forget at all.

[kalaam]

Quote

The guy reply to this statement earlier

He said the du'a happen during the time of the prophet shallallahu 'alaihi wasallam while this case of forgot as witness by Abu Salamah happen after the demise of the prophet shallallahu 'alaihi wasallam

That is not what we are asking. Did what Abu Huraira (ra) forgot was heard by him before the dua of Prophet (s) or afterwards? Has he any proof? And take note of bro Tripoly's post.

[eljauzaa]

TripolySunni, on 08 November 2011 - 03:14 PM, said:

Farid, on 08 November 2011 - 04:57 AM, said:

Quote

We would like to know what his response after seeing the hadith of Sahih  Muslim above. Would he accuse of Abu Huraira lied when he himself state  Nabi shallallahu ‘alaihi wasallam said that will not forget.

Countered by the authentic hadith of Zaid bin Thabit in Mu'ajam Al-Awsat that the Prophet (pbuh) made dua'a for Abu Huraira to have unforgettable knowledge.

You mean this:

أن رجلا جاء إلى زيد بن ثابت فسأله ، فقال له زيد : عليك بأبي هريرة ، فإني بينما أنا وأبو هريرة وفلان في المسجد ندعو الله ونذكره إذ خرج علينا رسول الله صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم حتى جلس إلينا ، فقال : عودوا للذي كنتم فيه ، قال زيد : فدعوت أنا وصاحبي ، فجعل رسول الله صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم يؤمن على دعائنا ، ودعا أبو هريرة فقال : إني أسألك ما سأل صاحباك وأسألك علما لا ينسى ، فقال رسول الله صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم : آمين ، فقلنا : يا رسول الله ونحن نسألك علما لا ينسى فقال : سبقكم بها الغلام الدوسي

Zaid ibn Thabit narrated: A man came to Zaid and asked him so Zaid said: Go ask Abu Huraira because when we were in the mosque making Du'ah and mentioning Allah, the Prophet SAWS came to us and sat with us, he told us to continue what we were doing, Zaid said: The Prophet SAWS started saying "Ameen" to our Du'ah, Abu Huraira made a Du'ah and said: O Allah I ask you what both of my companions asked and I ask you unforgettable knowledge. The Prophet then said "Ameen" so we said: O Rassul-Allah SAWS and we also ask unforgettable knowledge, so he said: al-Dusi has beaten you to it.

Ibn Hajar said the Isnad is good and al-Shawkani said the narrators are thiqat.

his answer :
he suggest you and brother farid learn more ulumul hadeeth, his state that hadeeth zaid ibn tsaabit is weak coz father of muhammad ibn qais are qais al madani and he is majhool ain, which only his son that record from him. Ibnu hajar said in at-taqreeb 'qais al madaniy is majhool' [at-taqreeb 2/36]

[Efendi]

eljauzaa, on 12 December 2011 - 02:25 AM, said:

his answer :
he suggest you and brother farid learn more ulumul hadeeth, his state that hadeeth zaid ibn tsaabit is weak coz father of muhammad ibn qais are qais al madani and he is majhool ain, which only his son that record from him. Ibnu hajar said in at-taqreeb 'qais al madaniy is majhool' [at-taqreeb 2/36]

I suggest to him to learn some manners. And don't be arrogant.

[Farid]

Quote

his answer :
he suggest you and brother farid learn more ulumul hadeeth, his state  that hadeeth zaid ibn tsaabit is weak coz father of muhammad ibn qais  are qais al madani and he is majhool ain, which only his son that record  from him. Ibnu hajar said in at-taqreeb 'qais al madaniy is majhool'  [at-taqreeb 2/36]

Welcome to the boards.

Mohammed bin Qais is Ibn Makhrama and not Al-Madani Al-Qaas. Refer to Abu Huraira (Tareekh Dimashq) p. 88 and Mustadrak Al-Hakim p. 2218, Al-Maktaba Al-Asriyah.

[eljauzaa]

brother farid, what is the correlation btween hadeeth 'Prophet (pbuh) made dua'a for Abu Huraira' and hadeeth abu salama ? it shows that Abu Hurayrah said "no". This is obviously something that is improbable, so Abu Salamah stated that the hadith of Abu Hurairah forgot about it because Abu Salamah swore that he heard Abu Huraira convey this before.

[Farid]

^ Would you mind rephrasing that akhi, I'm not sure that I understood what you're asking.

Brother, out of curiosity, do people in Indonesia and Malaysia believe that the person that owns that blog is a Sunni? If not, then do they see him as a credible source of information? I mean, why do they trust a liar?

Edited by Farid, 12 December 2011 - 05:13 AM.

[eljauzaa]

^ what ur conclusion bout the 2 hadeeth?
1. hadeeth that shows the prophet(pbuh) made dua'a for abu huraira (r.a)
2. Hadeeth that shows abu huraira (r.a) forget.

If abu salamah wrong in this position, he (the owner of the blog) said it didnt make any sense because in Shahi Muslim no 4125
حَدَّثَنِي حَجَّاجُ بْنُ الشَّاعِرِ حَدَّثَنِي مُعَلَّى بْنُ أَسَدٍ حَدَّثَنَا عَبْدُ الْعَزِيزِ بْنُ مُخْتَارٍ حَدَّثَنَا يَحْيَى بْنُ عَتِيقٍ حَدَّثَنَا مُحَمَّدُ بْنُ سِيرِينَ عَنْ أَبِي هُرَيْرَةَ قَالَ قَالَ رَسُولُ اللَّهِ صَلَّى اللَّهُ عَلَيْهِ وَسَلَّمَ لَا عَدْوَى وَلَا طِيَرَةَ وَأُحِبُّ الْفَأْلَ الصَّالِحَ
so ibn sirin states what abu salamah said its true that abu hurairah had narrated that hadeeth.

sorry brother farid for my bad english, in this forum i want to improve my bad english.
oh, yeah that blog its shia, but the owner didnt want to reveal that he is a shia.

[Farid]

Quote

^ what ur conclusion bout the 2 hadeeth?
1. hadeeth that shows the prophet(pbuh) made dua'a for abu huraira (r.a)
2. Hadeeth that shows abu huraira (r.a) forget.

If abu salamah wrong in this position, he (the owner of the blog) said it didnt make any sense because in Shahi Muslim no 4125
حَدَّثَنِي حَجَّاجُ بْنُ الشَّاعِرِ حَدَّثَنِي مُعَلَّى بْنُ أَسَدٍ  حَدَّثَنَا عَبْدُ الْعَزِيزِ بْنُ مُخْتَارٍ حَدَّثَنَا يَحْيَى بْنُ  عَتِيقٍ حَدَّثَنَا مُحَمَّدُ بْنُ سِيرِينَ عَنْ أَبِي هُرَيْرَةَ قَالَ  قَالَ رَسُولُ اللَّهِ صَلَّى اللَّهُ عَلَيْهِ وَسَلَّمَ لَا عَدْوَى  وَلَا طِيَرَةَ وَأُحِبُّ الْفَأْلَ الصَّالِحَ
so ibn sirin states what abu salamah said its true that abu hurairah had narrated that hadeeth.

Brother, the view of Ibn Hajar is very simple, and it is pretty logical. First, as you know, Abu Huraira used to hear hadiths from the Prophet (pbuh) before the dua'a. These hadiths are hadiths that are open to error and forgetfulness. We will call them hadiths (A). Then, after the dua'a Abu Huraira heard other hadiths that are impossible to forget, due to the dua'a, we will call them hadiths (B).

So, the hadith above was narrated by Abu Huraira, and he narrated this for many years, and it was heard by some of his major students like Ibn Sireen and Abu Salama and others. Nobody disagrees with this. However, this hadith, fell under category (A) not (B), so one day, he forgot it completely, because he heard this hadith before the dua'a, and remembered it for a long period of time, until he one day forgot it. Simple stuff.

[Efendi]

Farid, on 12 December 2011 - 03:00 AM, said:

Quote

his answer :
he suggest you and brother farid learn more ulumul hadeeth, his state  that hadeeth zaid ibn tsaabit is weak coz father of muhammad ibn qais  are qais al madani and he is majhool ain, which only his son that record  from him. Ibnu hajar said in at-taqreeb 'qais al madaniy is majhool'  [at-taqreeb 2/36]

Welcome to the boards.

Mohammed bin Qais is Ibn Makhrama and not Al-Madani Al-Qaas. Refer to Abu Huraira (Tareekh Dimashq) p. 88 and Mustadrak Al-Hakim p. 2218, Al-Maktaba Al-Asriyah.

Brother you sure in that? Because between shuyukh of Ismail ibn Umayyah listed al-Madani.

[Farid]

Quote

Brother you sure in that? Because between shuyukh of Ismail ibn Umayyah listed al-Madani.

Yes. I do understand why one would see this as an issue, since Al-Mizzi has categorised it in this manner, however, when you refer to the two sources that i mentioned above, it becomes clear who Mohammed bin Qais is in reality.