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Hadith Rejection - Fitnah of Inkaar Hadith (Munkir-e-Hadith)


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#21 OFFLINE   swords_of_sunnah

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Posted 29 September 2011 - 06:43 PM

Now its turn for my question ;)

Well seriously speaking I dont have much knowledge about your sect, what i came to know from some sources is that, there are different groups among munkireen e hadeeth. Like some reject all hadeeth altogether, some reject hadeeth which doesnt seem to be suitable to their thinking etc. Apart from this i dont know much about you people.

So consider this my first question to a munkireen e hadeeth:

From when did your sect came into existence?  If it took place not more 200 years ago then, DO YOU BELIEVE THAT THE WHOLE MUSLIM NATION FOR ALMOST MORE THAN 1000 YEARS DIDN't ACHEIVE THE TRUTH. AND WERE UPON MISGUIDANCE?

Hope i will get a decent and a straight forward answer,
Allah is the MAULA of those who believe, whereas the disbelievers have no MAULA (Quran 47:11)

HASBUNALLAHU WA NEMAL WAKEEL, NEMAL MAULA WA NEMAN NASEER
Translation: "Allah (Alone) is Sufficient for us, and He is the Best Disposer of affairs (for us); what an Excellent Maula (Patron, Lord) and what an Excellent Helper!

#22 OFFLINE   simpletruthislam

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Posted 29 September 2011 - 06:47 PM

salam

how can u say who follows which recitation??  i mostly use translations of different scholars and read them all and than follow what i best understood and sometimes i check again and again with quranic wordroots if any translations doesnt fit in my mind...  and  only recitation without understanding the meaning is of no use..  allah says in quran that read quran with understanding as we have made it easy to understand....    

i know there are 7 types of recitations but those recitations doesnt change the meaning of quran
The only book that the messenger delivered to the world is the Quran (6:19). The sole mission of the messenger is to deliver the message (16:35). We have been commanded to follow the Quran alone (7:2-3; 17:46).The Quran contains everything that we need for guidance (16:89).God did not leave anything out of the Quran (6:38).The best hadith is the Quran (39:23).In which hadith, besides God and His revelations do they believe? (45:6)

#23 OFFLINE   simpletruthislam

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Posted 29 September 2011 - 06:52 PM

i wrote a reply but i think some net problem lol

salam again

i dont know what is the relation of meaning of quran with how u recite it?? i know that there are 7 methods of recitation but what i it has to do with meaning ot quran? does that change what quran says?
The only book that the messenger delivered to the world is the Quran (6:19). The sole mission of the messenger is to deliver the message (16:35). We have been commanded to follow the Quran alone (7:2-3; 17:46).The Quran contains everything that we need for guidance (16:89).God did not leave anything out of the Quran (6:38).The best hadith is the Quran (39:23).In which hadith, besides God and His revelations do they believe? (45:6)

#24 OFFLINE   swords_of_sunnah

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Posted 29 September 2011 - 06:55 PM

Well brother farid, asked that question.. So i guess he will comment on that answer.

BUt I asked the question in post 21... Please answer that.
Allah is the MAULA of those who believe, whereas the disbelievers have no MAULA (Quran 47:11)

HASBUNALLAHU WA NEMAL WAKEEL, NEMAL MAULA WA NEMAN NASEER
Translation: "Allah (Alone) is Sufficient for us, and He is the Best Disposer of affairs (for us); what an Excellent Maula (Patron, Lord) and what an Excellent Helper!

#25 OFFLINE   Jhangvi

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Posted 29 September 2011 - 06:59 PM

View Postsimpletruthislam, on 29 September 2011 - 06:18 PM, said:

i checked quran my self and it is complete book as told by allah himself
Again, I haven't asked you the proof from a Quranic verse itself, rather what I asked is:

Quote

who told you that its for sure the book/words of Allah?
So, answer these two queries:

1. who
and
2. its for sure

My emphasis is on the word who

Hope these questions are not difficult ones.

And when it is said unto them (Kuffars): Believe as these people [Sahabah {R.A}] believe; they say: "Shall we believe as these foolish believe? Alert! they (Kuffars) are the foolish but they know not. {Surah Al-Baqarah, Ayah#13}


224 Urdu Books on Shia - ردِ شیعہ پر 224 اردو کتابیں


#26 OFFLINE   Mawahid Abid

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Posted 30 September 2011 - 02:12 AM

View Postsimpletruthislam, on 29 September 2011 - 09:57 AM, said:

salam  i am here now to talk  and this member of ur forum is a liar cause he never sent me invitation link of any forum ever i even asked him few times  if u ever read all the comments on those video u will know how dirty and filthy  talks he was giving and abusing  and swearing ... is this the way of muslim to do dawah?   the video page u can  all check that out to read whose comments are cowardly and boasting ...



all commets are here   http://www.youtube.c...s?v=J30QqIx9cVk

and the religion i stated is other cause there was no without sect offer in that list  u can add a new category there as Quranists or Quran Alone so i can change it to it

:Bismillah:
ok kid if i'm a Liar .. ok .. as you say !! How did you Came here and specially to this thread ??  :biggrin:

I sended you the link in your friends inbox and asked him and you to come .. and you say i'm a liar never sended you an invitation ??


well enough talk let me prove it via screen shots it will clear the whole thing
  :InshaAllah:

sc.png

is that Right ??  :biggrin:

and yeah everyone here please do read his comments on the Video comments sections so everybody can know who is a LIAR !!

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#27 OFFLINE   simpletruthislam

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Posted 30 September 2011 - 02:44 AM

salam first of all
u never sent me message if u had u had posted its screenshot here

second QuranVahida was not whom i know so i dont know anything about who is he or she i never talked to her



3rd i found this page while searching on google.com for doing reaserch that how many sites have copied a video of mine or given link to it and i found you at almost 5th page of that search
The only book that the messenger delivered to the world is the Quran (6:19). The sole mission of the messenger is to deliver the message (16:35). We have been commanded to follow the Quran alone (7:2-3; 17:46).The Quran contains everything that we need for guidance (16:89).God did not leave anything out of the Quran (6:38).The best hadith is the Quran (39:23).In which hadith, besides God and His revelations do they believe? (45:6)

#28 OFFLINE   simpletruthislam

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Posted 30 September 2011 - 02:48 AM

SALAM  to moderator

i am not following any sect at all and thats why you have heard of many like me but didnt connect them at all i can give u a short list of those personalities

SOME REVOULUTONARY VOICES
Imam Nafees Sheristani of Arabia (395-461A.H.) – crucified.
Imam Ash-Shaikh Muhammad Tahir Al-Makki (417-460A.H.) – burned alive.
Imam Ahmad Amin Tahir Al-Masri (1883-1953) - tortured to death in prison.
Imam Moinuddin Al-Ash'Ari of Iraq (313-363A.H.) - crucified.
Imam Shariq Alawi Mu'tazali of Palestine (407-457A.H.) - hanged.
Imam Raghib Al-Isphahani of Persia (1327-1409) - beheaded.
Imam Abdullah Zanjani of Arabia (459-610A.H.) – crucified.
Jamaluddin Afghani of Iran/Afhanistan (1830 to 1899)
Mufti Muhammad Abduh of Egypt (1849 to 1906)
Sir Syed Ahmed Khan (1817 to 1898)
Allama Iqbal (1877 to 1938)
Allama Muhammad Asad of Austria/Gibraltar (1907-1997)
Dr. Maurice Buccaille (Abus Salam) of France (1911-1989)
Allama Inayatullah Mashriqi of indo-Pak (1888-1965)
Imam Mufti Vehbi Ismael of Albania (1917-2006)
Mujtahid Imam Al-Husseini of Iran (1919-?)
Allama Ubaidullah Sindhi of India (1865-1935)
Allama Tamanna Imadi of Indo-Pak (1895-1961)
Allama Habib-ur-Rahman Kandhalwi of Indo-Pak (1887-1957)
Allama Aslam Jairajpuri of Indo-Pak (1890-1955)
Fazil Uloom Dinyah Masooduddin Usmani of Indo-Pak (19013-1986)
Fazil Diniyaat Ghulam Jeelani Barq of Indo-Pak (1901-1983)
Allama G.A. Parwaiz of Indo-Pak (1903-1985)
Allama Rasheed Ridha of Iran (1887-1941)


SO YOU CAN SEE ALL THOSE WHO PROTESTED AGAINST THE MULLAH ISLAM OR ISLAM NO 2 WERE GIVEN FATAWAS OF INFIDELS BY SHCOLARS IN POWER AND MANY WERE BEHEADED , TORTURED, KILLED AND OUTCASTED....
The only book that the messenger delivered to the world is the Quran (6:19). The sole mission of the messenger is to deliver the message (16:35). We have been commanded to follow the Quran alone (7:2-3; 17:46).The Quran contains everything that we need for guidance (16:89).God did not leave anything out of the Quran (6:38).The best hadith is the Quran (39:23).In which hadith, besides God and His revelations do they believe? (45:6)

#29 OFFLINE   Mawahid Abid

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Posted 30 September 2011 - 02:56 AM

View Postsimpletruthislam, on 30 September 2011 - 02:48 AM, said:

SALAM  to moderator

i am not following any sect at all and thats why you have heard of many like me but didnt connect them at all i can give u a short list of those personalities

SOME REVOULUTONARY VOICES
Imam Nafees Sheristani of Arabia (395-461A.H.) – crucified.
Imam Ash-Shaikh Muhammad Tahir Al-Makki (417-460A.H.) – burned alive.
Imam Ahmad Amin Tahir Al-Masri (1883-1953) - tortured to death in prison.
Imam Moinuddin Al-Ash'Ari of Iraq (313-363A.H.) - crucified.
Imam Shariq Alawi Mu'tazali of Palestine (407-457A.H.) - hanged.
Imam Raghib Al-Isphahani of Persia (1327-1409) - beheaded.
Imam Abdullah Zanjani of Arabia (459-610A.H.) – crucified.
Jamaluddin Afghani of Iran/Afhanistan (1830 to 1899)
Mufti Muhammad Abduh of Egypt (1849 to 1906)
Sir Syed Ahmed Khan (1817 to 1898)
Allama Iqbal (1877 to 1938)
Allama Muhammad Asad of Austria/Gibraltar (1907-1997)
Dr. Maurice Buccaille (Abus Salam) of France (1911-1989)
Allama Inayatullah Mashriqi of indo-Pak (1888-1965)
Imam Mufti Vehbi Ismael of Albania (1917-2006)
Mujtahid Imam Al-Husseini of Iran (1919-?)
Allama Ubaidullah Sindhi of India (1865-1935)
Allama Tamanna Imadi of Indo-Pak (1895-1961)
Allama Habib-ur-Rahman Kandhalwi of Indo-Pak (1887-1957)
Allama Aslam Jairajpuri of Indo-Pak (1890-1955)
Fazil Uloom Dinyah Masooduddin Usmani of Indo-Pak (19013-1986)
Fazil Diniyaat Ghulam Jeelani Barq of Indo-Pak (1901-1983)
Allama G.A. Parwaiz of Indo-Pak (1903-1985)
Allama Rasheed Ridha of Iran (1887-1941)


SO YOU CAN SEE ALL THOSE WHO PROTESTED AGAINST THE MULLAH ISLAM OR ISLAM NO 2 WERE GIVEN FATAWAS OF INFIDELS BY SHCOLARS IN POWER AND MANY WERE BEHEADED , TORTURED, KILLED AND OUTCASTED....

Is that Right ??

Can you answer me .. How Was Quran revealed ??
And on whom's Pure and Clear Heart ??

Again .. like Jhangvi bhai said : i asked you
Whom's

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#30 OFFLINE   simpletruthislam

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Posted 30 September 2011 - 02:59 AM

quran clearly says that it was relvealed to the last prophet  muhammad p.b.u.h.
The only book that the messenger delivered to the world is the Quran (6:19). The sole mission of the messenger is to deliver the message (16:35). We have been commanded to follow the Quran alone (7:2-3; 17:46).The Quran contains everything that we need for guidance (16:89).God did not leave anything out of the Quran (6:38).The best hadith is the Quran (39:23).In which hadith, besides God and His revelations do they believe? (45:6)

#31 OFFLINE   Mawahid Abid

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Posted 30 September 2011 - 03:02 AM

View Postsimpletruthislam, on 30 September 2011 - 02:59 AM, said:

quran clearly says that it was relvealed to the last prophet  muhammad p.b.u.h.
So and does the quran also says that .. the whole World Talks when they want .. but  :Muhammad[S.A.W.W]: Talks when  :Allah [S.W.T]: Wants him .. ???

Edited by Mawahid Abid, 30 September 2011 - 03:04 AM.

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#32 OFFLINE   simpletruthislam

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Posted 30 September 2011 - 03:06 AM

it doest say he talks what allah wants but as a messenger what ever he says is word of allah...and word of allah is wahi... and quran is the only wahi....

hadiths are not wahi... if you believe them to be wahi please proove it to me from quran or hadis that there is other than quran what allah revealed to prophet?

The only book that the messenger delivered to the world is the Quran (6:19).
The sole mission of the messenger is to deliver the message (16:35).

and rasool means  that who brings message or the messenger  and what was the message of allah?  the quran

Edited by simpletruthislam, 30 September 2011 - 03:20 AM.

The only book that the messenger delivered to the world is the Quran (6:19). The sole mission of the messenger is to deliver the message (16:35). We have been commanded to follow the Quran alone (7:2-3; 17:46).The Quran contains everything that we need for guidance (16:89).God did not leave anything out of the Quran (6:38).The best hadith is the Quran (39:23).In which hadith, besides God and His revelations do they believe? (45:6)

#33 OFFLINE   Mawahid Abid

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Posted 30 September 2011 - 03:26 AM

View Postsimpletruthislam, on 30 September 2011 - 03:06 AM, said:

it doest say he talks what allah wants but as a messenger what ever he says is word of allah...and word of allah is wahi... and quran is the only wahi....

hadiths are not wahi... if you believe them to be wahi please proove it to me from quran or hadis that there is other than quran what allah revealed to prophet?

The only book that the messenger delivered to the world is the Quran (6:19).
The sole mission of the messenger is to deliver the message (16:35).

and rasool means  that who brings message or the messenger  and what was the message of allah?  the quran
Well .. how do you pray Salah and where is the method of performing Salah in Quran .. Can you please Post it here .. it would be Nice ..


Quran is the final word of Allah. This gives a complete code of conduct for our every day life and a way to spiritual uplift. The book was revealed to Prophet Mohammad . The Quran itself lays down the role of the Prophet In Sura Baqra it is stated


Even as Allah has sent among you an Apostle from among you who recites to you The Communications and purifies you and teaches you the Book and the Hikma and teaches you that which you did not know. (2.151)

This verse makes the following points very clear;

Allah sent The Prophet from amongst the human beings.

The Prophet recites the verses of Quran (thus transfers the revelations to Ummah and ALSO);

He purifies (cleanses) the believers

The Prophet teaches (explains) this book (The Quran)

He teaches Hikma and;

Teaches what you did not know.


Thus the duty of the Prophet was definitely not that of a postman but a rasool on whom The Book was revealed and who was deputed to teach that book to the Ummah. Not only that, He was also given the duty of teaching Hikma and also things that we did not know. So Quran and Hikma are two different things. The Prophet was to do this for the Arabs whose mother tongue was Arabic. They could understand the message as for as the language was concerned but these experts of Arabic also needed a teacher for understanding the The Book and its message. That is why the words (Yoalikumul Kitab) is used in this verse. Quran cannot be understood without the teachings of The Prophet .In this very verse the Quran declares that Rasool is to teach Hikma. Quran makes it clear that The Quran is revealed by Allah and same is the case with Hikma. This is explained in Sura Baqara(231)



And when you have divorced women and they have fulfilled the term of their prescribed period, either take them back on reasonable basis or set them free on reasonable basis. But do not take them back to hurt them, and whoever does that, then he has wronged himself. And treat not the Verses (Laws) of Allah as a jest, but remember Allah's Favours on you (i.e. Islam), and that which has been sent down to you of the Book (i.e. the Qur'an) and Al-Hikmah (the Prophet's Sunnah - legal ways - Islamic jurisprudence, etc.) whereby you are instructed. And fear Allah, and know that Allah is All-Aware of everything.

Again in Sura An Nisa (113) it is said;

Had not the Grace of Allah and Mercy been upon you (O Muhammad SAW), a party of them would certainly have made a decision to mislead you, but (in fact) they mislead none except their own selves, and no harm can they do to you in the least. Allah has sent down to you the Book (The Qur'an), and AlHikmah (Islamic laws, knowledge of legal and illegal things i.e. the Prophet's Sunnah ), and taught you that which you did not know. And Ever Great is the Grace of Allah unto you (O Muhammad SAW).
In Sura Ahzab (34) Allah Says



And remember (O you the members of the Prophet's family, the Graces of your Rabb), That which is recited in your houses of the Verses of Allah and AlHikmah (i.e. Prophet's Sunnah legal ways, etc. so give your thanks to Allah and glorify Praises for this Qur'an and the Sunnah). Verily, Allah is Ever Most Courteous, Well Acquainted with all things.
This proves the following;

The Book (Quran) and Hikma are both revealed by Allah to the Nabi .

Nabi has been appointed to teach these to the Muslims.

Quran is the final word of Allah (which is recited in the salaat and is to be followed in our daily lives)

For the explanation of Quran Nabi has been given the Hikma. Quran is theory and prophet's explanations are the practical aspect of Quran. These explanations are not a part of Quran (hence they shall not be recited in Salaat) but a practical demonstration of Quranic injunctions. These are called Hadith.

Now the question is whether it is incumbent on us to follow these Ahadith or is it optional. Here again let us revert to Quran.

In Sura Ahzab (36) it is ordained


It is not for a believer, man or woman, when Allah and The Messenger have decreed a matter that they should have any option in their decision. And whoever disobeys Allah and The Messenger, he has indeed strayed in a plain error.

Then again the Quran says; Sura An Nisa (59)


O you who believe! Obey Allah and obey the Messenger (Muhammad SAW), and those of you (Muslims) who are in authority. (And) if you differ in anything amongst yourselves, refer to Allah and The Messenger,if you believe in Allah and in the Last Day. That is better and more suitable for final determination.

Here the unconditional obedience is ordered for Allah and the Rasool , but for people of authority there is a condition that they should be from amongst you. Here the unconditional injunction is clearly for obeying Allah (for orders given in Quran) and orders of The Rasool.

The reader my have the following questions;

What are the orders of Allah. How do we refer to Allah.

What are the orders of The Rasool . How do we refer to Rasool.

If we differ in any matter, we should refer to Allah. But we do not get direct revelations from Allah. So we find out the Quranic injunctions about it. Orders given in Quran are FARAIZ If we do not find or understand the quranic injunction then we are ordered to refer to the injunctions of Rasool and these are Hadith and Sunnah.
As far as the people of authority are concerned they shall be obeyed only if their orders are with in the limits ordained by Allah and Rasool . There is no such condition for the word of Rasool because what ever Rasool said or ordered was revealed by Allah and obeying Rasool is like obeying Allah.



He who obeys the Messenger (Muhammad SAW), has indeed obeyed Allah, but he who turns away, then Allah has not sent you (O Muhammad SAW) as a watcher over them. (An Nisa 80)
And .


(An Nisa-115)


And whoever contradicts and opposes the Messenger (Muhammad SAW) after the right path has been shown clearly to him, and follows other than the believers' way. Allah shall keep him in the path he has chosen, and burn him in Hell - what an evil destination

In this Ayah punishment is promised for;

whoever contradicts and opposes the Messenger (Muhammad SAW) after the right path has been shown clearly to him and'

follows other than the believers' way.

So apart from transferring the Book to the Ummah, the Prophet explained this book by giving orders and by spending his own life accordingly. These orders and practical demonstrations are the Hadith and Sunnah. In the above mentioned verse it is clearly stated that who so ever contradicts the Messenger is destined for hell.


Do Quran and Hadith contradict each other? No. They don't. In certain instances Quran endorses the orders given by the Prophet . In Sura Taubah (84) Allah has ordered thus;


And never (O Muhammad SAW) pray (funeral prayer) for any of them (hypocrites) who dies, nor stand at his grave. Certainly they disbelieved in Allah and The Messenger, and died while they were Fasiqen (rebellious, - disobedient to Allah and The Messenger SAW).

Here the Prophet was asked to refrain from offering funeral prayer of hypocrites which means funeral prayer was in practice before the revelation of this Aayat, although we do not find any order in Quran for offering this prayer. Here the Quran has prohibited the funeral prayer of Munafeqeen but did not interfere with the funeral prayer of Muslims. If the order for Funeral prayer of Muslims is not in Quran, from where did it come. Clearly it was an act of Sunnah endorsed by Quran.

In Sura Jumma


O you who believe (Muslims)! When the call is proclaimed for the Salat (prayer) on the day of Friday (Jumu'ah prayer), come to the remembrance of Allah [Jumu'ah religious talk (Khutbah) and Salat (prayer) and leave off business (and every other thing), that is better for you if you did but know!
This call for Salaat is not ordained in Quran which means it was customary to make this call (ADAN) before the Jumma Prayer. Who else but the Prophet could have ordered this call. The Quran did not ban this but endorsed it.

In the same sura Jumma (11) it is stated


And when they see some merchandise or some amusement [beating of Tambur (drum) etc.] they disperse headlong to it, and leave you (Muhammad SAW) standing [while delivering Jumu'ah's religious talk (Khutbah)]. Say "That which Allah has is better than any amusement or merchandise! And Allah is the Best of providers."

While the Khutba of Jumma prayer was in progress, a caravan arrived and the Muslims ran towards it. Here the Muslims are told that which Allah has is better than any amusement or merchandise! And Allah is the Best of providers."

But where is the order for Khutba of Jumma in Quran. This is another act of the Prophet endorsed by Allah.

These instances prove that orders of Rasool not specifically given in Quran were obeyed by the Muslims and these were not prohibited, rather these were endorsed in certain cases by the Quran.

Now let us look at it from another angle. In certain Ayaats Quran refers to certain events or places but does not specify them. It is only Hadith that explains the full event. In sura Al Infaal (7);


And (remember) when Allah promised you (Muslims) one of the two parties (of the enemy i.e. either the army or the caravan) that it should be yours, you wished that the one not armed (the caravan) should be yours, but Allah willed to justify the truth by His Words and to cut off the roots of the disbelievers (i.e. in the battle of Badr).

There is no explanation for "Taaefatainee" and "Zat-us-showkate" Which one the Muslims wanted and why? What was the back ground of this event? Unless we know the answers to these questions we cannot understand this Aaya. Hadith tells us about the battle of Badr and the events that lead to it which have been referred to in this Aaya.

In sura Taubah (40) it is said


If you will not aid him, Allah certainly aided him when those who disbelieved expelled him, he being the second of the two, when they were both in the cave, when he said to his companion: Grieve not, surely Allah is with us. So Allah sent down His tranquility upon him and strengthened him with hosts which you did not see, and made lowest the word of those who disbelieved; and the word of Allah, that is the highest; and Allah is Mighty, Wise.

In this Aaya persons and events have not been specified and it is only Hadith that tells us about the full event. Now read the translation with the help of Hadith;

If you do not help him (help Muhammad SAW), (it does not matter), for Allah did indeed help him when the disbelievers drove him out (from Mecca), the second of two, when they (Muhammad SAW and Abu Bakr radhiallahu'anhu) were in the cave, and he said to his companion (Abu Bakr radhiallahu'anhu): "Be not sad (or afraid), surely Allah is with us." Then Allah sent down the Sakanah (calmness, tranquility, peace) upon him, and strengthened him with forces (angels) which you saw not, and made the word of those who disbelieved the lowermost, while it was the Word of Allah that became the uppermost, and Allah is All-Mighty, All-Wise.

There are innumerable Aayaats of this nature in Quran but only a few have been given above as an example.

The question now arises as to what is Hadith and Sunnah. During the life time of the Prophet the companions listened to the orders of the Prophet and acted accordingly. These orders were some times reduced to writings or were memorized. In other cases the companions just looked and adopted the ways of the Prophet . These companions were followed by the next generation (Tabaeen) and the generation after that (taba tabaeen). In the mean time the writing of Hadith in the form of book had started. The narration of Hadith was common and thus these reached the Muslim Ummah world wide.

Quran is the final word of Allah. No changes can be made to the text. Any such effort is instantly recognized and rejected by Muslims. You may pick up a copy of the holy Quran from any corner of the world and all of these will be identical.

Non Muslims and Munafiqeen have always tried to suppress the teachings of Quran and Nabi and the favorite way was to change the meaning and explanation of Quran as given by the Holy Prophet .

In the early days it was done by inserting fabricated Hadith which changed the whole prospective of the teachings of Islam. This situation was controlled by the Scholars like Imam Bokhari, Imam Muslim, Imam Malik, Imam Abu Daud, Imam Ahmad bin Hamble and others who sifted out the junk and collected the real Hadith. These non Muslaims and munafaqeen, seeing their efforts going in vain have now gone a step further by denouncing Hadith out right. The only way to do this is to denounce the Imams who are the main hurdle in the way of these Mustashreqeen and their students in the Muslim Ummah.

The most recent fitna in Islam is the Munkareen e Hadith movement that originated in Indo-Pakistan . A strange coincidence is that all their leaders were either educated in Western Universities under the supervision of Jews and Christian professors and supervisors or had a very close connection with these Mustashreqeen. Even today these neo scholars are mostly residing in the western countries and are busy in distorting the tafseer of Quran. They use the street language because they do not have sound arguments.

In our schools an average student can fluently read and write by the time he is in fifth grade. If knowledge could be acquired without a teacher why would we have teachers and professors at higher levels. Even munkareen e hadith have theirs so called Allamas who teach them the Book. Then why not have Rasool as the teacher appointed by Allah and authenticated in the above mentioned verses of Quran.



مُّحَمَّدٌ رَّسُولُ اللَّهِ وَالَّذِينَ مَعَهُ أَشِدَّآءُ عَلَى الْكُفَّارِ رُحَمَآءُ بَيْنَهُمْ تَرَاهُمْ رُكَّعاً سُجَّداً يَبْتَغُونَ فَضْلاً مِّنَ اللَّهِ وَرِضْوَاناً سِيمَـهُمْ فِى وُجُوهِهِمْ مِّنْ أَثَرِ السُّجُودِ ذَلِكَ مَثَلُهُمْ فِى التَّوْرَاةِ وَمَثَلُهُمْ فِى الإِنجِيلِ كَزَرْعٍ أَخْرَجَ شَطْأَهُ فَآزَرَهُ فَاسْتَغْلَظَ فَاسْتَوَى عَلَى سُوقِهِ يُعْجِبُ الزُّرَّاعَ لِيَغِيظَ بِهِمُ الْكُفَّارَ وَعَدَ اللَّهُ الَّذِينَ ءَامَنُواْ وَعَمِلُواْ الصَّـلِحَـتِ مِنْهُم مَّغْفِرَةً وَأَجْراً عَظِيماً


(48:29. Muhammad is the Messenger of Allah. And those who are with him are severe against disbelievers, and merciful among themselves. You see them bowing falling down prostrate, seeking reward from Allah and acceptance. The mark of them is on their faces from the traces of prostration. This is their description in the Tawrah. But their description in the Injil is like a seed which sends forth its shoot, then makes it strong, and becomes thick and it stands straight on its stem, delighting the sowers, that He may enrage the disbelievers with them. Allah has promised those among them who believe and do righteous good deeds, forgiveness and a mighty reward.)

Edited by Mawahid Abid, 30 September 2011 - 03:34 AM.

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#34 OFFLINE   Farid

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Posted 30 September 2011 - 03:52 AM

Quote

how can u say who follows which recitation??  i mostly use translations  of different scholars and read them all and than follow what i best  understood and sometimes i check again and again with quranic wordroots  if any translations doesnt fit in my mind...  and  only recitation  without understanding the meaning is of no use..  allah says in quran  that read quran with understanding as we have made it easy to  understand....    

Technically, most if not all Qura'nis follow the recitation of Hafs 'an Asim, apparently for no other reason other than it being the most popular recitation. Your answer makes it seem as though you don't read Arabic.

Quote

i dont know what is the relation of meaning of quran with how u recite  it?? i know that there are 7 methods of recitation but what i it has to  do with meaning ot quran? does that change what quran says?

Yes, it does. One of my favourite verses 49:6 says:


         YUSUFALI: O ye who believe! If a wicked person comes to you with any           news, ascertain the truth, lest ye harm people unwittingly, and afterwards          become full of repentance for what ye have done.
  PICKTHAL: O ye who believe! If an evil-liver bring you tidings, verify           it, lest ye smite some folk in ignorance and afterward repent of what ye          did.
  SHAKIR: O you who believe! if an evil-doer comes to you with a           report, look carefully into it, lest you harm a people in           ignorance, then be sorry for what you have done.


The word used in Arabic in the narration of Hafs says فتبينوا (fa-tabayanoo), which means the above. However, according to other recitations, like the recitation of Hamza Al-Zayyat, Al-Kasa'ee, and Khalaf, they read the verse to say فتثبتوا (fa-tathabatoo), which means "being steady" or "the opposite being hasty".

So, both words have different meanings, one implies caution in accepting knowledge, and the other leans towards verification. Now, the common view of Ahlul Sunnah is that these two meanings can be combined when understanding the verse since the differences between the words are not contradictory. However, what I would like to understand, is which of these do you choose when you receive news from a wicked person? Also, which of these two do you recite when reading the Qur'an, or during prayer?


Another verse that you might find relevant is the fifth verse from Al-Fatiha.

مالك يوم الدين is often translated into "Master of the Day of Judgment."  However, the verse according to some of the reciters has the word ملك (malik) which means king. How do you read the verse in prayers?

أرب يبول الثعلبان برأسه    لقد ذل من بالت عليه الثعالب


#35 OFFLINE   Farid

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Posted 30 September 2011 - 04:02 AM

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Imam Nafees Sheristani of Arabia (395-461A.H.) – crucified.
Imam Ash-Shaikh Muhammad Tahir Al-Makki (417-460A.H.) – burned alive.
Imam Moinuddin Al-Ash'Ari of Iraq (313-363A.H.) - crucified.
Imam Shariq Alawi Mu'tazali of Palestine (407-457A.H.) - hanged.
Imam Abdullah Zanjani of Arabia (459-610A.H.) – crucified.

Source?

أرب يبول الثعلبان برأسه    لقد ذل من بالت عليه الثعالب


#36 OFFLINE   simpletruthislam

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Posted 30 September 2011 - 04:51 AM

THESE VIDEO TO GET LIST OF AYATS OF SALAH

http://quranic.org/q...grimage.htm#266 AND SOME BASIC INFO ON SALAH

http://www.scribd.co...IR-AHMED    FOR MORE DETAILS ON ISLAMIC HISTORY AND THE NO. 2 ISLAM OF MULLAHS
The only book that the messenger delivered to the world is the Quran (6:19). The sole mission of the messenger is to deliver the message (16:35). We have been commanded to follow the Quran alone (7:2-3; 17:46).The Quran contains everything that we need for guidance (16:89).God did not leave anything out of the Quran (6:38).The best hadith is the Quran (39:23).In which hadith, besides God and His revelations do they believe? (45:6)

#37 OFFLINE   simpletruthislam

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Posted 30 September 2011 - 04:56 AM

33 – There is not an example they advance to which We do not give you the truth and the best commentary.
25 The Distinguisher, 33

God declares that He provides the best commentary. God’s revelations are complete in themselves without the need for recourse to other commentaries.


111 - It is not a word (hadith) invented, but a confirmation of what was sent before it, a detailed exposition of all things and a guide and a mercy to any such as believe.
12 Joseph, 111


In this verse, the fact that the Quran is not a word invented, and that it is a detailed exposition of all things is stressed; a fact to which the traditionalists have remained blind. The Quran states that the Quran is not a fabricated word (hadith).

6 - Following after them in grief, if they believe not in this word (hadith).
18 The Cave, 6

6 – These are God’s signs that We recite to you truthfully. In which word (hadith) other than God and His signs do they believe?
45 Kneeling, 6


Such is the question asked by God. The meaning that is obtained from the answer that comes out of the behaviour of the traditional defenders of Islam and the imitators of Sunni and Shii madhabs, is:: “We believe in Bukhari, Muslim, the sayings of the Twelve Imams, Abu Davud and b. Mace.”

87 - And whose word (hadith) can be truer than God’s?
4 The Women, 87

34 - Let them produce a word (hadith) like this, if they are truthful.
52 The Mount, 34


Claiming that in the famous book of hadiths of Abu Davud it is pointed out that the Prophet was entrusted with the Quran and similar hadiths, they try to engage in a rescue operation to save the sayings of the Prophet. However, this wish fulfillment falls short of the mark. For the sayings of Muhammad cannot be equated with the Quran, let alone the fact that the bulk of the sayings ascribed to the Prophet is larger than the Quran. Moreover, the hadiths, representative of the traditionalist mind, conflict with the above verse.

6 – Among the people, there are those who spread frivolous words (hadiths) to mislead others from the way of God, and take it in vain. For such there will be a humiliating penalty.
31 Luqmaan, 6



In verse 7 of the same sura we read: “When our signs are rehearsed to such a one, he turns away in arrogance, as if he heard them not as if his ears are deaf announce to him a grievous penalty.” If those who turn a deaf ear to the sayings of the Quran because of their sectarian fanaticism were to read these verses not merely for the pleasure of the built-in melody of the recital but to try to understand the meaning, they will surely be in a position to understand better what we are trying to clarify. The word hadith with reference to the Prophet is used in the Quran on two instances:

53 - “Enter not the Prophet’s houses until leave is given you for a meal …and when you have taken your meal; disperse without tarrying, lost in a hadith (word).”
3 The Parties, 53

3 - When the Prophet disclosed a hadith in confidence to one of his consorts, and she then divulged it, and God made it known to him...
66 Prohibition, 3


The use made here of the word hadith is not related in some way or another to Sunni and Shiite sectarian opinions. The fact that the word hadith in these verses is used merely to refer to the sayings of Muhammad are of great importance for our discussion. God, the prescient, uses the word hadith not in a Sunni and Shiite religious context, but to refer to the Prophet’s own words. Moreover, in both instances, the word hadith is use in a bad sense. On the other hand, the word sunna is used in the Quran in the combination - sunnatallah meaning ‘the way of God.’ (We shall see this in Chapter 16.)

The word idjma (general agreement in opinion and decision of legalists) and its derivatives, considered to be another source of Islam, again has a negative connotation. This is evidence that the Quran also repudiates ijma just like in the case of sunna and hadith. (For the derivatives of ijma, see 3 The Family of Imran, 157; 3 The Family of Imran, 173; 7 The Purgatory, 48; 10 Jonah, 58; 10 Jonah, 71; 12 Joseph, 19; 17 The Children of Israel, 88; 20 Taha 60; 20 Taha 64; 22 The Pilgrimage, 73; 26 The Poets, 38; 26 The Poets, 39; 26 The Poets, 56; 28 The History, 78; 43 Vanity, 32; 54 The Moon, 44; 54 The Moon, 45; 70 The Heights, 18; 104 The Backbiter, 2.)
The only book that the messenger delivered to the world is the Quran (6:19). The sole mission of the messenger is to deliver the message (16:35). We have been commanded to follow the Quran alone (7:2-3; 17:46).The Quran contains everything that we need for guidance (16:89).God did not leave anything out of the Quran (6:38).The best hadith is the Quran (39:23).In which hadith, besides God and His revelations do they believe? (45:6)

#38 OFFLINE   simpletruthislam

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Posted 30 September 2011 - 04:57 AM

Abu Bakr gathered the public after the death of the Prophet and addressed them thus: “You are transmitting conflicting hadiths that clash with the sayings of the Prophet. The persons to come after you will be in a worse predicament. Transmit no hadiths from God’s messenger. Speak to those who would like you to transmit hadiths in the following way: “Behold! God’s book is with us, abide by what has been made lawful for you therein and avoid what has been prohibited.”
Zahabi, Tezkiratul Huffaz, Bukhari


Omar wrote letters to the Prophet’s companions, who lived in other cities, asking them to destroy all the copies of hadiths in their hands.
Ibn Abdil Berr, Camiul Bayanil Ilm ve Fazluhu.

There was a remarkable increase in the number of hadiths during the caliphate of Omar. Omar desired that all the pages on which were written the hadiths that were in the hands of the public be brought to him. Then he ordered that they be destroyed, saying: “These are like the Mishnah of the Jewish people.”
Ibn Sad- Tabakat
Omar said to his friend who went on a journey to Iraq: “You are going to a country where the population recites the Quran like busy bees; so do not divert them from their true path with hadiths.”
Ahmad Ibn Hanbal, Kitabul Ilal

Omar spoke thus: “Remember those that went before you, they had books written and abandoned God’s Book. I shall not allow anyone to compare any book with the Quran”. In another instance he had said: “I will not exchange any book for the Quran.” Yet, on another occasion, he had announced: “By God, I shall not let any book cast a shadow on the Quran.”
Al Hatib, Takyidul Ilm; Ibn Sad, Tabakat.

Sheddad asked Ibn Abbas whether the Prophet had left anything behind and the answer was: “Only what are inscribed between the pages on the Quran.”
Bukhari K. Fezailul Qura; Muslim K. Fezailus Sahabe, Abu Davud K. Fiten, Tirmizi K. Fiten.

Ibn Abbas used to say, regarding the prohibition of copying the hadiths: “The communities before you swerved from the right path because of books they wrote like yours.”
Ibn Abdul Berr, Camiul Beyanil ilm

A page on which were written hadiths happened to be in the hands of Abdullah b. Masud. He asked for some water with which he washed away what was written on it, then he ordered it burned saying: “Anyone who would report to me the place where a hadith is kept, I would go there, even as far as India, to destroy it.”
Aby Rayya, Enlightment of the Muhammedan Sunna.


Ali pronounced the following khutba, (sermon delivered at the noon prayer on Friday): “Those who have about them pages of hadiths, destroy them. For, what causes havoc among people is their abandonment of the Quran, and in abiding by the injunctions of the scholars.”
Ibn Abdul Berr, Camiyul Beyanul Ilm

They came to report to Ali and said: “The public is engrossed in hadiths.” “Is that so?” asked Ali. The answer was in the affirmative. “I had heard the Prophet say that a mischievous dissension seemed to lurk ahead.” I asked him what could that be and he replied: “The salvation is in the Quran. Those that went before you and those that will come after you are within reach of the Quran, the Book that settles all disputes; it is no joke, mind you. Anyone who abandons It will be subject to the wrath of God. Anyone seeking a truer path will go astray. It is the infallible rope of God. It is full of wisdom. It leads man along the right path. It is the Book that will surely lead youin the right direction;, scholars will never be able to embrace it totally, a Book with inexhaustible riches.”
Sunnan-i Tirmizi/Darimi
The only book that the messenger delivered to the world is the Quran (6:19). The sole mission of the messenger is to deliver the message (16:35). We have been commanded to follow the Quran alone (7:2-3; 17:46).The Quran contains everything that we need for guidance (16:89).God did not leave anything out of the Quran (6:38).The best hadith is the Quran (39:23).In which hadith, besides God and His revelations do they believe? (45:6)

#39 OFFLINE   simpletruthislam

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Posted 30 September 2011 - 05:03 AM

IMAM RAZI'S HORRIBLE CONFESSION:
Most Muslims have heard of one of the most ancient and famous Tafseer-e- Kabeer (The Great Exposition of the Qur’an) by Imam Fakhruddin Razi. This tafseer is one of the tops being followed by our Mullahs till this day. Afterwriting his 300 volumes, the great and authoritative Imam confesses: "Allmy intellectual and supposedly logical statements in the explanation of theQur’an turned out to be lame. All the explanations of the Qur’an done bythe so-called Imams (Tabari, Zamakhshari, Ibne Kathir, Bukhari, Muslimetc) are misguided and misleading. All of us were the tools of Satan. Oursouls were polluted by our physical desires. Our efforts of this worlD promise to bring us nothing but torture and doom."
(Hadith-Ul-Qur’an by Allama Inayatullah Khan Al-Mashriqi, 1954edition p190)

IMAM TABARI'S STRANGE CONFESSION:
“I am writing this book as I hear from the narrators. If anything soundsabsurd, I should not be blamed or held accountable. The responsibility ofall errors or blunders rests squarely on the shoulders of those who havenarrated these stories to me.”So, Tabari wrote nothing but hearsay.
Tabari's Tareekhil Umam Wal Mulook (The History of Nations and Kings)popularly called "Mother of All Histories" is the first ever "History of Islam"written by 'Imam' Tabari (839-923 CE) at the junction of the third and fourthcentury AH. He died in 310 AH, 3 centuries after the Prophet (S). What werehis sources? Not a scrap of paper! "He told me this who heard it from himwho heard it from so and so," and so on. By compiling his 13 volumeHistory and his 30 volume Exposition of the Qur’an under royal patronage,he became the Super Imam. The later historians until this day havepersisted in following the trails of the Super Imam.

IBN KATHIR'S CONFESSION:
Had Ibn Jareer Tabari not recorded the strange reports, I would never havedone so. (Tafseer Ibn Katheer,Khilaafat-e-Mu'awiya-o-Yazeed,MahmoodAhmed Abbasi)

IMAM AHMAD BIN HANBAL'S CHASTISEMENT:
Allama Shibli Nomani, on page 27 of his Seeratun Nabi has given a startlingquote of Imam Ahmad bin Hanbal (780-855 CE, d. 241 AH), "Three kinds ofbooks are absolutely unfounded, Maghazi, Malahem and Tafseer.” (Theexalted Prophet's Battles, Dreams and Prophecies, and Expositions of theQur’an).IBN KHALDOON'S THRASHING: The Muslim historians have made amockery of history by filling it with fabrications and senseless lies.(Muqaddama)

SHAH ABDUL AZIZ'S CRITIQUE:
Six pages of Ibn Khaldoon's History havebeen deliberately removed since the earliest times. These pages hadquestioned the most critical juncture of Islamic history i.e. the Emirate ofYazeed and the fiction of Karbala. [Even the modern editions admit in theside-notes that those pages have been mysteriously missing from the ancient original book. Khilaafat-e-Mu'awiya-o-Yazeed, Mahmood AhmedAbbasi]

SHAH WALIULLAH'S CHASTISEMENT:
Imam Jalaluddin Sayyuti's Tarikh- ul-Khulafa is the prime example of how our Historians, Muhaddithin andMufassirin, each has played like Haatib-il-Lail
(One who collects firewood atnight not knowing which piece is good and which one is bad).

IMAM RAGHIB'S PROTEST:
Tabari, Waqidi, Mas'oodi, Sayyuti pasted anyreports they got hands on. Moreover, Abu Mukhnif, Lut bin Yahya andMuhammad bin Saaeb Kalbi (in whose names the civil wars within Islamduring the times of Hazraat Ali, Mu'awiya and Yazeed are reported) never existed. Their names have been concocted and narratives in their names have all been invented by one man, the Zoroastrian "Imam" Tabari bin Rustam.
The only book that the messenger delivered to the world is the Quran (6:19). The sole mission of the messenger is to deliver the message (16:35). We have been commanded to follow the Quran alone (7:2-3; 17:46).The Quran contains everything that we need for guidance (16:89).God did not leave anything out of the Quran (6:38).The best hadith is the Quran (39:23).In which hadith, besides God and His revelations do they believe? (45:6)

#40 OFFLINE   simpletruthislam

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Posted 30 September 2011 - 05:17 AM

CAN YOU TELL ME HOW HIKMAH IS IN HADITHS ?? BECAUSE QURAN SAYS Wisdom (hikmah) is in God's Quran; not necessarily in men's hadith (17:39; 36:2).

AND WHY THERE ARE SO MANY PARANTHESIS AND ADDITION IN THE TRANSLATION OF QURAN U POSTED... BECAUSE U WANT TO CHANGE THE REAL MEANING OF THE VERSE TO WHAT U WANT TO BELIEVE AND NOT WHAT IT SAYS.

Edited by simpletruthislam, 30 September 2011 - 05:19 AM.

The only book that the messenger delivered to the world is the Quran (6:19). The sole mission of the messenger is to deliver the message (16:35). We have been commanded to follow the Quran alone (7:2-3; 17:46).The Quran contains everything that we need for guidance (16:89).God did not leave anything out of the Quran (6:38).The best hadith is the Quran (39:23).In which hadith, besides God and His revelations do they believe? (45:6)





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