30 replies to this topic

[maulana yazeed]

http://www.reuters.c...E7930NU20111004

Gunmen  shot  dead  13  shiites  and  wounded  7  in  an  attack  on  a  mini-bus  on  the  outskirts  of  quetta  .

It  is  unsure  who  carried out  these  attacks  but  one  thing  is  certain  -  THEY  DON'T  LIKE  US  and  WE  DON'T  LIKE  THEM  ,  their  loyalty  lies  with  iran  ,  not  pakistan  and  they  should  go  and  stay  there  .

[mnauman]

maulana yazeed, on 04 October 2011 - 11:37 AM, said:

http://www.reuters.c...E7930NU20111004

Gunmen  shot  dead  13  shiites  and  wounded  7  in  an  attack  on  a  mini-bus  on  the  outskirts  of  quetta  .

It  is  unsure  who  carried out  these  attacks  but  one  thing  is  certain  -  THEY  DON'T  LIKE  US  and  WE  DON'T  LIKE  THEM  ,  their  loyalty  lies  with  iran  ,  not  pakistan  and  they  should  go  and  stay  there  .

asalam o alikum..i am new to this forum...i want to ask every one who are sunni that what the uluma and what does islam says about the killing of shia...?should they be killed where ever there are found...?/is there any guidline from quran ,sunna or fiqa killing shia??????

[kalaam]

Moulana sahib, you need rest for a few days.

[AbuMuslimKhorasani]

mnauman, on 04 October 2011 - 07:04 PM, said:

asalam o alikum..i am new to this forum...i want to ask every one who are sunni that what the uluma and what does islam says about the killing of shia...?should they be killed where ever there are found...?/is there any guidline from quran ,sunna or fiqa killing shia??????

Walaikum Salaam,

Brother, Islam is clear and simple. Killing innocent people is forbidden no matter who they are.

[Efendi]

maulana yazeed, on 04 October 2011 - 11:37 AM, said:

http://www.reuters.c...E7930NU20111004

Gunmen  shot  dead  13  shiites  and  wounded  7  in  an  attack  on  a  mini-bus  on  the  outskirts  of  quetta  .

It  is  unsure  who  carried out  these  attacks  but  one  thing  is  certain  -  THEY  DON'T  LIKE  US  and  WE  DON'T  LIKE  THEM  ,  their  loyalty  lies  with  iran  ,  not  pakistan  and  they  should  go  and  stay  there  .

From this post is clear for me that you are happy that they have been killed. If you want, you can take it personal. I don't like your stance against shias. I lived amongst shias for a long time, and I believe they should be called to Islam, rather to migration to Iran. You are getting warn, verbal one. Don't force us to increase your level or ban you.

[Ebn Hussein]

Paki Shias should go to Iran? Nah mate, you can have'em, we Sunni Iranians got enough Rawafidh in our country, we don't need more, especially not the Asian ones who are the worst and most lunatic and Mushrik Rawafidh on earth.

BTW: Killing innocents and Tafjiraat are signs of the Khawarij of today. Stay away from Ghuluw brother, the Prophet cursed it (Ghuluw/extremism).

[Muwahid]

السلام عليكم ورحمة الله وبركته

Well, one must ask what is the Shar'i stance on combatting mushrikeen in Islamic lands. Especially ones who curse the companions of Rasoolullah صلى الله عليه وسلم and who worship shrines, and commit shirk; and our answers must reflect the Islamic stance, and not the politically correct one. No fool will argue it is haraam to kill the innocent, the question is who falls under the category of innocent (like the mushrikeen).

مع السلامة

Edited by Muwahid, 04 October 2011 - 08:04 PM.

[shakeel]

maulana yazeed, on 04 October 2011 - 11:37 AM, said:

http://www.reuters.c...E7930NU20111004

Gunmen  shot  dead  13  shiites  and  wounded  7  in  an  attack  on  a  mini-bus  on  the  outskirts  of  quetta  .

It  is  unsure  who  carried out  these  attacks  but  one  thing  is  certain  -  THEY  DON'T  LIKE  US  and  WE  DON'T  LIKE  THEM  ,  their  loyalty  lies  with  iran  ,  not  pakistan  and  they  should  go  and  stay  there  .

What about the muslims who live in Europe and North America including yourself? Should those muslims also be forced to leave because their loyalty to the Western country they reside in is suspect?

Edited by shakeel, 02 December 2011 - 04:19 PM.

[lotfilms]

بسم الله الرحم الرحيم
وعليكم السلام ورحمة الله وبركاته

Muwahid, on 04 October 2011 - 08:03 PM, said:

السلام عليكم ورحمة الله وبركته

Well, one must ask what is the Shar'i stance on combatting mushrikeen in Islamic lands. Especially ones who curse the companions of Rasoolullah صلى الله عليه وسلم and who worship shrines, and commit shirk; and our answers must reflect the Islamic stance, and not the politically correct one. No fool will argue it is haraam to kill the innocent, the question is who falls under the category of innocent (like the mushrikeen).

مع السلامة

1) It is not proven that every single Shia is a mushrik, or even most.  Did the people who killed these 13 Shias check the 'aqeeda of each one of these 13 to see if they're mushrik or not?

2)Even if it is proven that every single Shia is a mushrik, did the Prophet صلى الله عليه وآله سلم walk around the streets of Mekkah killing mushrikeen left and right?  After all, the best example to follow is Prophet Muhammad صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم

3) Even it is proven that every single Shia is a mushrik, and that it is permissible to slay mushrikeen every where you find them, did anyone bother to check the 'aqeeda of these 13 to see if they were mushriks?  Or did they randomly kill them in broad daylight?  What evidences were provided?

There is a massive gap between a true Qadhi and a Mullah.

w/s

Edited by lotfilms, 02 December 2011 - 04:48 PM.

[Ali Shah Hussain]

Islam doesn't permit killing of anyone.If some one is misguided we should try our level best to guide him according to Quran and Suannah.

[MohammadMufti]

lotfilms, on 02 December 2011 - 04:46 PM, said:

بسم الله الرحم الرحيم
وعليكم السلام ورحمة الله وبركاته

Muwahid, on 04 October 2011 - 08:03 PM, said:

السلام عليكم ورحمة الله وبركته

Well, one must ask what is the Shar'i stance on combatting mushrikeen in Islamic lands. Especially ones who curse the companions of Rasoolullah صلى الله عليه وسلم and who worship shrines, and commit shirk; and our answers must reflect the Islamic stance, and not the politically correct one. No fool will argue it is haraam to kill the innocent, the question is who falls under the category of innocent (like the mushrikeen).

مع السلامة

1) It is not proven that every single Shia is a mushrik, or even most.  Did the people who killed these 13 Shias check the 'aqeeda of each one of these 13 to see if they're mushrik or not?

To be fair, in war there are general rulings and there is no obligation to check the aqaid of each individual. And this would be per the Prophetic example as well as that of his successors.

I think the more serious issue here is that either people are taking their misunderstandings of the law into their own hands and you have acts like these where there is no leadership in most of these cases; even the known groups in Pak don't claim many of these attacks. Or they're just "random" acts of violence with likely deeper motives than simple sectarian ones.

[geart isalm]

"u said that its nt proven that every single shia z nt a mushrik"then hw it can b proved,?? if v ask a shia to tell his belifs,then he will do "TAQIYAH",,,i say when it will b proved,, when a clear cut FATWA will cum,jst lyk abt QADIANIS,when v can say openly that'yes shias r kafirs'?????plz reply 2 my question,thats confusing me day by day??

[vigilare]

MohammadMufti, on 03 December 2011 - 09:15 AM, said:

To be fair, in war there are general rulings and there is no obligation to check the aqaid of each individual. And this would be per the Prophetic example as well as that of his successors.

Their example wouldn't count because of tribal loyalty during that period (which of course still exists).  Individuals may have broken away from tribes to join the Prophet, but at least later on their loyalty was generally with their tribal leaders.  

We all know what the Quran and Hadith say about killing innocents - let alone wrongly calling another Muslim a kafir - so knowing if one is a kafir etc is an important issue.

Oh, and is this war?

Quote

I think the more serious issue here is that either people are taking their misunderstandings of the law into their own hands and you have acts like these where there is no leadership in most of these cases; even the known groups in Pak don't claim many of these attacks. Or they're just "random" acts of violence with likely deeper motives than simple sectarian ones.

Very true.

[lotfilms]

بسم الله الرحمن الرحيم
السلام عليكم

MohammadMufti, on 03 December 2011 - 09:15 AM, said:

To be fair, in war there are general rulings and there is no obligation to check the aqaid of each individual. And this would be per the Prophetic example as well as that of his successors.

You're correct, but remember that this isn't a war; a war hasn't been declared between the two sides to my knowledge.
And even if it was a war, the Prophet صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم gave us very clear guidelines for warfare, and surely random people on a bus (who don't have any clear outward motive of attacking Muslims) cannot be considered enemy combatants?

geart isalm, on 03 December 2011 - 12:50 PM, said:

"u said that its nt proven that every single shia z nt a mushrik"then hw it can b proved,?? if v ask a shia to tell his belifs,then he will do "TAQIYAH",,,i say when it will b proved,, when a clear cut FATWA will cum,jst lyk abt QADIANIS,when v can say openly that'yes shias r kafirs'?????plz reply 2 my question,thats confusing me day by day??

There's plenty of Shias who would openly profess their beliefs with no taqiyyah.  i think the problem is that a lot of people learn about Shias from people who probably have never met a Shia in their life, nor have ever attended a Shia mosque in their life, instead of learning about Shias from Shias themselves.

Why don't you compile a list of questions and go on all of the major Shia sites (including forums and websites of layShias and websites of their scholars) and ask them these questions?  Or better yet, just read what they say and you'll come to a better understanding and then realize how difficult it is to group everyone in one grop insha'Allah

Edited by lotfilms, 03 December 2011 - 05:01 PM.

[hadeed]

@Brother lot film,

muhmmad mufti is right in his argument. it is a war for them.

Yazid laanti is his khalifa. he defends him on various froum. and his forefather Muawaya and company, they were regarded the group of Baarghi by Rasullalah saw. They declared war long before against Ali as.

Now this war which their forefather (islaaf) of Muhammad Mufti started against islam, is still going on till this time but now against the lovers of Ali as . And he is right in his assertions.

I 100% agree with him. It is war for them la

MODS NOTE: by Efendi
Seems to me it is curse. Indeed you have no shame, first you claim that you are brelwi hanafi, and now you are cursing our members? Warned and banned for 3 days.

[Efendi]

hadeed, on 03 December 2011 - 10:31 PM, said:

@Brother lot film,

muhmmad mufti is right in his argument. it is a war for them.

Yazid laanti is his khalifa. he defends him on various froum. and his forefather Muawaya and company, they were regarded the group of Baarghi by Rasullalah saw. They declared war long before against Ali as.

Now this war which their forefather (islaaf) of Muhammad Mufti started against islam, is still going on till this time but now against the lovers of Ali as . And he is right in his assertions.

I 100% agree with him. It is war for them la

MODS NOTE: by Efendi
Seems to me it is curse. Indeed you have no shame, first you claim that you are brelwi hanafi, and now you are cursing our members? Warned and banned for 3 days.

You claim you love Ali (radi Allahu anhu).

Christians claim they love Isa (alaihi salam).

But truth that these only claims.

[hadeed]

Efendi, on 04 December 2011 - 12:55 AM, said:

You claim you love Ali (radi Allahu anhu).

Christians claim they love Isa (alaihi salam).

But truth that these only claims.

I see my warn status has now reached full. ...never mind, you are coward to ban or warn rather than talk  truthfully face to face. but i know you guys for some years now, and i know what is in your heart. ...just the bughz Ali as.

lets judge your Love with Imam Ali (as).

Tell me if you would have been  in the battle of Siffin,  Which side you would have taken as per Quran.

The side of Imam Ali as. ....or the side of transgressors or baaghi group, i.e with Muawiya?????

I am on the side of Imam Ali as as per Quran....

Tell me where you have been., i am waiting for your explicit expression for love of imam Ali as.

PS: regarding the la, i am following your islaf sunnat, they used to curse Imam Ali as during bani ummayah days, and my curse on those people (them meaning all of them) is justified who believe in murdering against other muslims.

[Jhangvi]

hadeed, on 04 December 2011 - 01:44 AM, said:

I see my warn status has now reached full. ...never mind, you are coward to ban or warn rather than talk truthfully face to face. but i know you guys for some years now, and i know what is in your heart. ...just the bughz Ali as.

I think you were the strong deserving candidate to receive your appropriate warn levels. There are many Shia members on this forum, actively participating, with number of posts, some hard hitters too, but yet they don't have any warn level till today. Ever realized why? At least, take some nasiha from them.

hadeed, on 04 December 2011 - 01:44 AM, said:

lets judge your Love with Imam Ali (as).

Tell me if you would have been  in the battle of Siffin,  Which side you would have taken as per Quran.

The side of Imam Ali as. ....or the side of transgressors or baaghi group, i.e with Muawiya?????

I am on the side of Imam Ali as as per Quran....

I would have been with Hadhrat Ali [ra]. Happy now?

OK, now its time to judge your love with Imam Ali [as]....

Question is: Hadhrat Ali [ra] named his sons as Abu Bakr, Umar and Uthman... Would you dare to keep your sons names as Abu Bakr, Umar and Uthman in the love of Imam Ali [as]?

[msameer]

Ali Shah Hussain, on 03 December 2011 - 03:37 AM, said:

Islam doesn't permit killing of anyone.If some one is misguided we should try our level best to guide him according to Quran and Suannah.

i totally agree, our beloved Prophet SAWW did perform nimaz e jinaza of mufafiq even HE SAWW was very well aware of his munafqat.. so our purpose should be just to give dawah and let then know the straight path..

[hadeed]

Jhangvi, on 04 December 2011 - 01:19 PM, said:

hadeed, on 04 December 2011 - 01:44 AM, said:

I see my warn status has now reached full. ...never mind, you are coward to ban or warn rather than talk truthfully face to face. but i know you guys for some years now, and i know what is in your heart. ...just the bughz Ali as.

I think you were the strong deserving candidate to receive your appropriate warn levels. There are many Shia members on this forum, actively participating, with number of posts, some hard hitters too, but yet they don't have any warn level till today. Ever realized why? At least, take some nasiha from them.

hadeed, on 04 December 2011 - 01:44 AM, said:

lets judge your Love with Imam Ali (as).

Tell me if you would have been  in the battle of Siffin,  Which side you would have taken as per Quran.

The side of Imam Ali as. ....or the side of transgressors or baaghi group, i.e with Muawiya?????

I am on the side of Imam Ali as as per Quran....

I would have been with Hadhrat Ali [ra]. Happy now?

OK, now its time to judge your love with Imam Ali [as]....

Question is: Hadhrat Ali [ra] named his sons as Abu Bakr, Umar and Uthman... Would you dare to keep your sons names as Abu Bakr, Umar and Uthman in the love of Imam Ali [as]?

Regarding your question about Abubakr, umar and uthman name, if you prove through sahih shia hadith (not mere citation of a book) that it is true, then of course i will follow Imam as. besides, i dont have much problem with these three, as these three were not proven enemies of Ahylulbayt as.

But yes Muwiaya and company were the enemies of Ahlulbayt. Effendi tactically did not turn back on my question. and you came for his help, though i did not ask you the earlier question. But since you volunteered, and if you are honest then do  tell me that under Rasullalah saw hadith;

Muawiaya and his army were the group of Transgressors in Siffin? (since you expressed that you would have sided with Imam Ali as in siffin).

Yes or No.

Edited by hadeed, 04 December 2011 - 02:33 PM.