5 replies to this topic

[Ahlusunnah]

Assalamualaikum

Shia always use this point against sunni stating that how can the prophet used to forget the number of raka'ah??

The questions are

1. Is the narration authentic in sunni hadith ?

2. Do we find similar authentic narration in book of shia?

3. If the narration is sahih in book of sunni, what is the context?

[Hani]

The context is that Prophets forget, end of story.

And yes I remember the Hadith is in the books of the Shia, maybe some brother who remembers it can help you.

[swords_of_sunnah]

Well akhee Ahlussunah, please search my blog before you try to get answers for your questions, because i find that most of your queries were already dealt there.

Quote

Proof for the mistakes of  Prophets and shia imams from authentic shia sources:
proof 1:
وروى الحسن بن محبوب عن الرباطي، عن سعيد الاعرج قال: ” سمعت أبا عبد الله  عليه السلام يقول: إن الله تبارك وتعالى أنام رسوله صلى الله عليه وآله عن  صلاة الفجر حتى طلعت الشمس، ثم قام فبدأ فصلى الركعتين اللتين قبل الفجر،  ثم صلى الفجر، وأسهاه في صلاته فسلم في ركعتين ثم وصف ما قاله ذو الشمالين.  (2) وإنما فعل ذلك به رحمة لهذه الامة لئلا يعير الرجل المسلم إذا هو نام  عن صلاته أو سها فيها فيقال: قد أصاب ذلك رسول الله صلى الله عليه وآله
I heard Abaa `Abd Allaah say: That Allaah, tabarak wa ta`aala, made the  Messenger of Allaah (SWT) sleep for Salaah Al-Fajr until the sun was  shining. Then he (SAWAS) got up and began praying two rakka’ah which is  before fajr, then he prayed fajr, and he forgot in his salaah tasleem in  the second rakka’ah then he described what he said in his al-shamaalayn  , and He (SWT) did this by his Mercy of this nation lest a muslim man  if he (over) sleeps from his salaah or forgets. It will be said: “qad  aSaab dhaalik rasoolullaah (SAWAS)

I wanted to also say, that after  Al-Sadooq narrates this in his Al-Faqeeh, he says only a ghuluww and a  mufawwiDa will deny the sahw of the Prophet (SAWAS).




proof 2:

Muhammad Baqir Majlisi in his “Biharul anwar” 25/350:

تميم القرشي عن أبيه عن أحمد بن علي الانصاري عن الهروي قال: قلت للرضا  عليه السلام: يا ابن رسول الله إن في الكوفة (1) قوما يزعمون أن النبي صلى  الله عليه وآله لم يقع عليه السهو في صلاته، فقال: كذبوا لعنهم الله إن  الذي لا يسهو هو الله لا إله إلا هو.
“Tamim al-Qurashi from his father, from Ahmad ibn Ali al-Ansare from  al-Harwi: I said to Ar-Rida (alaihi salam): In Kufa there is group of  people they reject (possibility) that prophet (sallalahu alaihi wa ali)  erred in pray”. He said: They lied, may curse of Allah be upon them, the  One who didn’t err is Allah, no God except Him”.

Quote

Here is the wordings of grand sheikh sadooq in his book Uyun ahbarul riza- volume 2, page 193

وَفِي حَدِيث آخِرَ: إِنّ الإِمامَ مُؤَيِّد بِرُوحِ القُدُس وَبَيْنَهُ  وَبَيْنِ اللَّه عَمُود مِن نُورٍ يَرى‏ فِيهِ أَعمال العِبادِ وَكُلَّما  احتاجَ إِلَيْهِ، لِدِلالَةٍ اطلَعَ عَلَيْهِ وَيُبسِطَهُ فَيَعلَمُ  وَيُقبَضُ عَنْهُ فَلا يَعْلَمُ.
وَالإمام يُولَدُ وَيَلِدُ، وَيَصِحُّ وَيَمرَضُ، وَيَأْكُلُ وَيَشْرَبُ وَيَبُولُ وَيَتَغَوَّط، وَيَنكِحُ وَيَنامُ وَيَنسى‏ وَيَسهُو،  وَيَفرَحُ وَيَحزُنُ، وَيَضحَكُ وَيَبْكي وَيَحْيَى وَيَمُوتُ وَيُقبَرُ  وَيَزارُ، وَيُحشَرُ وَيُوقَفُ، وَيُعرَضُ وَيُسأَلُ، وَيُثابُ وَيُكرَمُ،  وَيَشفَعُ، وَدَلالَتُه فِي خِصلَتَيْنِ فِي العِلْمُ اِسْتِجابَة  الدَّعْوَة وَكُلِّ ما أَخْبَر بِهِ مِنَ الحَوادِث الَّتِي تُحدَثُ قَبْلُ  كُونِها فَذلكَ بِعَهْدِ مَعهُود إِلَيْهِ مِن رَسُولَ اللَّهِ‏ صَلَّى  اللهُ عَلَيْهِ وَآلِهِ تَوارَثَهُ وَعَنْ آبائِهِ عَنْهُ‏ عَلَيْهِمُ  السَّلاَمُ وَيَكُونُ ذلِكَ مِمَّا عَهِدَ إِلَيْهِ جِبْرَئِيل‏ عَلَيْهِ  السَّلامُ مِن عَلاّمِ الغُيُوبِ عَزَّ وَجَلَّ.

19-2 In another tradition we read, “The Imam is certified by the Holy  Spirit. There is a column of light between him and God through which he  sees the deeds of the people. He is informed about what he needs by it.  Sometimes that light is shined at him and he gets to know (what he must  become aware of). And sometimes it is taken away and thus he will not  know (what he needs not know). “The Imam is born. He also has children.  He gets ill and he gets cured. He eats and drinks. He urinates and  defecates. He gets married. He sleeps.He forgets and he makes mistakes.  He gets happy and sad. He laughs and cries. He lives and then dies. He  is buried and the people go to visit his shrine. He is resurrected and  questioned. He is rewarded and honored. He intercedes. There are two  important signs for him: his knowledge and the fulfillment of his  prayers. He has heard the news that he gives about the events in the  future from his grandfathers from the Prophet of God (s). The Prophet of  God (s) has heard them from Gabriel. Gabriel has heard them from the  Almighty God.

“Man la yahduruhul faqih” 1/359

Sheikh Saduq wrote something very interesting at page 360:

وكان شيخنا محمد بن الحسن بن أحمد بن الوليد رحمه الله يقول: أول درجة  في الغلو نفي السهو عن النبي صلى الله عليه وآله، ولو جاز أن ترد الاخبار  الواردة في هذا المعنى لجاز أن ترد جميع الاخبار(4) وفي ردها إبطال الدين  والشريعة.
“And our sheikh Muhammad ibn Al-Hasan ibn Ahmad ibn al-Walid  (rahimuhullah)said: “First level in quluw it’s denial of error from  messenger (sallalahu alaihi wa ali), and if it is permitted to deny  narrations with that meaning, then it’s permitted to deny all  narrations, and in their denial is restriction (ibtal) of of religion  and shariat”.

After he quoting words of his shaykh,  Saduq added:
وأنا أحتسب الاجر في تصنيف كتاب منفرد في إثبات سهو النبي صلى الله عليه وآله والرد على منكريه إن شاء الله تعالى.

“And I hope to gain reward in compiliing book dedicated to proof error of Nabi and refutation to those who reject that”. Manla yahduruhul faqih 1/360

At page 359 he said:

إن الغلاة والمفوضة لعنهم الله ينكرون سهو النبي صلى الله عليه وآله  ويقولون: لو جاز أن يسهو عليه السلام في الصلاة لجاز أن يسهو في التبليغ
“Al-Qulat and al-mufaqida may Allah curse them, reject possibility of error from Nabi, they say: If error in pray possible, then error in tablig also possible”

Comment: So it’s clear that modern shias are ghulats  in the view of sheikh Saduq and his teacher, the greatest shias  scholars. And those ignorants who accuse ahlesunnah to believe that  prophets can error should first see what is in their house, because  their insults are indirectly towards their greatest scholars.

http://youpuncturedt...one-infallible/

[Ahlusunnah]

swords_of_sunnah, on 19 April 2012 - 10:03 AM, said:

Well akhee Ahlussunah, please search my blog before you try to get answers for your questions, because i find that most of your queries were already dealt there.

Quote

Proof for the mistakes of  Prophets and shia imams from authentic shia sources:
proof 1:
وروى الحسن بن محبوب عن الرباطي، عن سعيد الاعرج قال: ” سمعت أبا عبد الله  عليه السلام يقول: إن الله تبارك وتعالى أنام رسوله صلى الله عليه وآله عن  صلاة الفجر حتى طلعت الشمس، ثم قام فبدأ فصلى الركعتين اللتين قبل الفجر،  ثم صلى الفجر، وأسهاه في صلاته فسلم في ركعتين ثم وصف ما قاله ذو الشمالين.  (2) وإنما فعل ذلك به رحمة لهذه الامة لئلا يعير الرجل المسلم إذا هو نام  عن صلاته أو سها فيها فيقال: قد أصاب ذلك رسول الله صلى الله عليه وآله
I heard Abaa `Abd Allaah say: That Allaah, tabarak wa ta`aala, made the  Messenger of Allaah (SWT) sleep for Salaah Al-Fajr until the sun was  shining. Then he (SAWAS) got up and began praying two rakka’ah which is  before fajr, then he prayed fajr, and he forgot in his salaah tasleem in  the second rakka’ah then he described what he said in his al-shamaalayn  , and He (SWT) did this by his Mercy of this nation lest a muslim man  if he (over) sleeps from his salaah or forgets. It will be said: “qad  aSaab dhaalik rasoolullaah (SAWAS)

I wanted to also say, that after  Al-Sadooq narrates this in his Al-Faqeeh, he says only a ghuluww and a  mufawwiDa will deny the sahw of the Prophet (SAWAS).




proof 2:

Muhammad Baqir Majlisi in his “Biharul anwar” 25/350:

تميم القرشي عن أبيه عن أحمد بن علي الانصاري عن الهروي قال: قلت للرضا  عليه السلام: يا ابن رسول الله إن في الكوفة (1) قوما يزعمون أن النبي صلى  الله عليه وآله لم يقع عليه السهو في صلاته، فقال: كذبوا لعنهم الله إن  الذي لا يسهو هو الله لا إله إلا هو.
“Tamim al-Qurashi from his father, from Ahmad ibn Ali al-Ansare from  al-Harwi: I said to Ar-Rida (alaihi salam): In Kufa there is group of  people they reject (possibility) that prophet (sallalahu alaihi wa ali)  erred in pray”. He said: They lied, may curse of Allah be upon them, the  One who didn’t err is Allah, no God except Him”.

Quote

Here is the wordings of grand sheikh sadooq in his book Uyun ahbarul riza- volume 2, page 193

وَفِي حَدِيث آخِرَ: إِنّ الإِمامَ مُؤَيِّد بِرُوحِ القُدُس وَبَيْنَهُ  وَبَيْنِ اللَّه عَمُود مِن نُورٍ يَرى‏ فِيهِ أَعمال العِبادِ وَكُلَّما  احتاجَ إِلَيْهِ، لِدِلالَةٍ اطلَعَ عَلَيْهِ وَيُبسِطَهُ فَيَعلَمُ  وَيُقبَضُ عَنْهُ فَلا يَعْلَمُ.
وَالإمام يُولَدُ وَيَلِدُ، وَيَصِحُّ وَيَمرَضُ، وَيَأْكُلُ وَيَشْرَبُ وَيَبُولُ وَيَتَغَوَّط، وَيَنكِحُ وَيَنامُ وَيَنسى‏ وَيَسهُو،  وَيَفرَحُ وَيَحزُنُ، وَيَضحَكُ وَيَبْكي وَيَحْيَى وَيَمُوتُ وَيُقبَرُ  وَيَزارُ، وَيُحشَرُ وَيُوقَفُ، وَيُعرَضُ وَيُسأَلُ، وَيُثابُ وَيُكرَمُ،  وَيَشفَعُ، وَدَلالَتُه فِي خِصلَتَيْنِ فِي العِلْمُ اِسْتِجابَة  الدَّعْوَة وَكُلِّ ما أَخْبَر بِهِ مِنَ الحَوادِث الَّتِي تُحدَثُ قَبْلُ  كُونِها فَذلكَ بِعَهْدِ مَعهُود إِلَيْهِ مِن رَسُولَ اللَّهِ‏ صَلَّى  اللهُ عَلَيْهِ وَآلِهِ تَوارَثَهُ وَعَنْ آبائِهِ عَنْهُ‏ عَلَيْهِمُ  السَّلاَمُ وَيَكُونُ ذلِكَ مِمَّا عَهِدَ إِلَيْهِ جِبْرَئِيل‏ عَلَيْهِ  السَّلامُ مِن عَلاّمِ الغُيُوبِ عَزَّ وَجَلَّ.

19-2 In another tradition we read, “The Imam is certified by the Holy  Spirit. There is a column of light between him and God through which he  sees the deeds of the people. He is informed about what he needs by it.  Sometimes that light is shined at him and he gets to know (what he must  become aware of). And sometimes it is taken away and thus he will not  know (what he needs not know). “The Imam is born. He also has children.  He gets ill and he gets cured. He eats and drinks. He urinates and  defecates. He gets married. He sleeps.He forgets and he makes mistakes.  He gets happy and sad. He laughs and cries. He lives and then dies. He  is buried and the people go to visit his shrine. He is resurrected and  questioned. He is rewarded and honored. He intercedes. There are two  important signs for him: his knowledge and the fulfillment of his  prayers. He has heard the news that he gives about the events in the  future from his grandfathers from the Prophet of God (s). The Prophet of  God (s) has heard them from Gabriel. Gabriel has heard them from the  Almighty God.

“Man la yahduruhul faqih” 1/359

Sheikh Saduq wrote something very interesting at page 360:

وكان شيخنا محمد بن الحسن بن أحمد بن الوليد رحمه الله يقول: أول درجة  في الغلو نفي السهو عن النبي صلى الله عليه وآله، ولو جاز أن ترد الاخبار  الواردة في هذا المعنى لجاز أن ترد جميع الاخبار(4) وفي ردها إبطال الدين  والشريعة.
“And our sheikh Muhammad ibn Al-Hasan ibn Ahmad ibn al-Walid  (rahimuhullah)said: “First level in quluw it’s denial of error from  messenger (sallalahu alaihi wa ali), and if it is permitted to deny  narrations with that meaning, then it’s permitted to deny all  narrations, and in their denial is restriction (ibtal) of of religion  and shariat”.

After he quoting words of his shaykh,  Saduq added:
وأنا أحتسب الاجر في تصنيف كتاب منفرد في إثبات سهو النبي صلى الله عليه وآله والرد على منكريه إن شاء الله تعالى.

“And I hope to gain reward in compiliing book dedicated to proof error of Nabi and refutation to those who reject that”. Manla yahduruhul faqih 1/360

At page 359 he said:

إن الغلاة والمفوضة لعنهم الله ينكرون سهو النبي صلى الله عليه وآله  ويقولون: لو جاز أن يسهو عليه السلام في الصلاة لجاز أن يسهو في التبليغ
“Al-Qulat and al-mufaqida may Allah curse them, reject possibility of error from Nabi, they say: If error in pray possible, then error in tablig also possible”

Comment: So it’s clear that modern shias are ghulats  in the view of sheikh Saduq and his teacher, the greatest shias  scholars. And those ignorants who accuse ahlesunnah to believe that  prophets can error should first see what is in their house, because  their insults are indirectly towards their greatest scholars.

http://youpuncturedt...one-infallible/

Akhi, thank you very much. I know you have written about this. I tried to locate it but i failed

Do all the narration are authenthic according to shia standard?

[swords_of_sunnah]

The one from “Man la yahduruhul faqih” 1/359  is authentic.

[Mawahid Abid]

Ahlusunnah, on 19 April 2012 - 09:34 AM, said:

Assalamualaikum

Shia always use this point against sunni stating that how can the prophet used to forget the number of raka'ah??

The questions are

1. Is the narration authentic in sunni hadith ?

2. Do we find similar authentic narration in book of shia?

3. If the narration is sahih in book of sunni, what is the context?

Brother Have A Sight on this too !!






And It's Not  Only in Sunni Ahadith this is also confirmed By Shia Ulma Have a Look at the Link Below !!
http://islamic-forum...showtopic=13323