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#61 OFFLINE   saleh.neji

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Posted 05 August 2012 - 01:50 PM

we have a tunisian scholar who explained this hadith is different way and his conclusion was that all people who say shahadah and pray and stick to usool aldeen and furu are qualified to enter paradise no matter what sect they belong to . i tried to find the video but couldn't . his explanation was superb
وقل رب أدخلني مدخل صدق وأخرجني مخرج صدق واجعل لي من لدنك سلطانا نصيرا

#62 OFFLINE   swords_of_sunnah

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Posted 05 August 2012 - 02:39 PM

View Postsaleh.neji, on 05 August 2012 - 01:50 PM, said:

we have a tunisian scholar who explained this hadith is different way and his conclusion was that all people who say shahadah and pray and stick to usool aldeen and furu are qualified to enter paradise no matter what sect they belong to . i tried to find the video but couldn't . his explanation was superb
This excludes the Shias, who believe in divine appointment of Imams who have SAME characteristics of Prophets.
Allah is the MAULA of those who believe, whereas the disbelievers have no MAULA (Quran 47:11)

HASBUNALLAHU WA NEMAL WAKEEL, NEMAL MAULA WA NEMAN NASEER
Translation: "Allah (Alone) is Sufficient for us, and He is the Best Disposer of affairs (for us); what an Excellent Maula (Patron, Lord) and what an Excellent Helper!

#63 OFFLINE   Agha Ali

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Posted 05 August 2012 - 08:49 PM

@ Dihyah_Kalbi

Well i gave u VERSE that IF ANY ONE KILLS any OTHER MUSLIM HE WILL GO IN HELL

so which one of those will go in hell .. bcoz its  ALLAHs Words not urs which can be changed.

so when they had a fight many muslims got killed.

which one will go in HELL ?

plz dont make stories just reply directly

i am saying YZEEd and MUHAWIYA will go in hell and u ?

#64 OFFLINE   Agha Ali

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Posted 05 August 2012 - 08:51 PM

@ TheNamE
Well one of ur friend already gave 12 names of your khalifa and now u r saying 5 ?

1st clear ur mind u have 12 or 5 ?
if 5 then sorry u r conflicting the hadith

#65 OFFLINE   Agha Ali

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Posted 05 August 2012 - 08:53 PM

@ as300

They are our khalifa

#66 OFFLINE   Agha Ali

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Posted 05 August 2012 - 08:55 PM

@ saleh.neji and swords_of_sunnah

Well mind giving me the ans of that question that which one will go in hell :)

#67 OFFLINE   Agha Ali

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Posted 05 August 2012 - 09:01 PM

@ ALL

Plz just prove ur 4 KHULFAI RASHEEDEEN . and after that tell me who will go in hell regarding that VERSE of QURAN

Imam Ali and Imam Hussain had a fight with Muhawiya
Imam Hussain with Yazeed

Which one will go in hell.. thats my simple question :)

and plz stop giving ur comments and read the verse again and tell me

Quran 4:93

And whoso kills a Believer intentionally, his recompense is Hell, dwelling therein forever, and God is wroth upon him, and curses him, and has prepared for him a big punishment.

Hope this time ill have better reply instead or ur own logics to save ur khalifa who will be in hell

----------------------------

QURAN (017.081)

The truth has come and the falsehood has vanished; surely falsehood is a vanishing (thing).

#68 OFFLINE   Dihyah_Kalbi

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Posted 06 August 2012 - 12:48 AM

@AGHA ALI

Are you crazy did u see my reply ?
GO TO THE THIRD PAGE;
http://islamic-forum...=40#entry119803

dont run away

do u want me to post it here again?

Edited by Dihyah_Kalbi, 06 August 2012 - 12:49 AM.


"Shia Loves Ali (RA) But Hate Umar Farooq (RA);
Muslim Loves Ali(RA) and Umar Farooq(RA) and All Sahaba(RA);
'Shia say's' Shaitan Loves Ali(RA) but Hate Umar Farooq(RA);"

Shia = Shaitan (what to expect from Shaitan)

#69 OFFLINE   vigilare

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Posted 06 August 2012 - 10:17 PM

View PostAgha Ali, on 05 August 2012 - 09:01 PM, said:

@ ALL

Plz just prove ur 4 KHULFAI RASHEEDEEN . and after that tell me who will go in hell regarding that VERSE of QURAN

Imam Ali and Imam Hussain had a fight with Muhawiya
Imam Hussain with Yazeed

Which one will go in hell.. thats my simple question :)

and plz stop giving ur comments and read the verse again and tell me

Quran 4:93

And whoso kills a Believer intentionally, his recompense is Hell, dwelling therein forever, and God is wroth upon him, and curses him, and has prepared for him a big punishment.

Hope this time ill have better reply instead or ur own logics to save ur khalifa who will be in hell

----------------------------

QURAN (017.081)

The truth has come and the falsehood has vanished; surely falsehood is a vanishing (thing).

Salaam,

My suggestion would be to leave this for now and concentrate on other things, perhaps learning fiqh or increasing imaan.  At the end of the day what you are sayimg may be valid to you but has already been answered, here and by scholars.  

The proof you look for rests with those who followed the Prophet (pbuh); the sahaba.
...Oh my Lord increase me in knowledge.

#70 OFFLINE   Agha Ali

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Posted 07 August 2012 - 10:15 PM

@ Dihyah_Kalbi

Well as i said dont give comments..

I gave u verse.. according that verse one of them will go in HELL

so who will go..

Simple question and i need direct simple reply

I am saying Muhawiya and yazeed and the whole army  will go in HELL. bcoz when some one is wrong how can he be true muslim. USe ur brain if u have. bcoz IMAM ALI and IMAM HUSSAIN cant be wrong as RASOOL ALLAH said i am leaving 2 wealthy things QURAN AND MY FAMILY.. so my friend RASOOL ALLAHS family cant be wrong. its my faith :)

hope to have direct reply next time without foolish comments bcoz its VERSE which is ALLAHS word and that cant be wrong. and it APPLIES on every one :)

----------------------

QURAN (017.081)

The truth has come and the falsehood has vanished; surely falsehood is a vanishing (thing).

#71 OFFLINE   Agha Ali

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Posted 07 August 2012 - 10:30 PM

@  vigilare

RASOOL ALLAH said i am leaving you two weahlthy things QURAN and MY FAMILY. not sahaba :) u can check the hadith my friend

Muslim Book 031, Number 5920:


Yazid b. Hayyan reported, I went along with Husain b. Sabra and 'Umar b. Muslim to Zaid b. Arqam and, as we sat by his side, Husain said to him: Zaid. you have been able to acquire a great virtue that you saw Allah's Messenger (may peace be upon him) listened to his talk, fought by his side in (different) battles, offered prayer behind me. Zaid, you have in fact earned a great virtue. Zaid, narrate to us what you heard from Allah's Messenger (may peace be upon him). He said: I have grown old and have almost spent my age and I have forgotten some of the things which I remembered in connection with Allah's Messenger (may peace be upon him), so accept whatever I narrate to you, and which I do not narrate do not compel me to do that. He then said: One day Allah's Messenger (may peace be upon him) stood up to deliver sermon at a watering place known as Khumm situated between Mecca and Medina. He praised Allah, extolled Him and delivered the sermon and. exhorted (us) and said: Now to our purpose. O people, I am a human being. I am about to receive a messenger (the angel of death) from my Lord and I, in response to Allah's call, (would bid good-bye to you), but I am leaving among you two weighty things: the one being the Book of Allah in which there is right guidance and light, so hold fast to the Book of Allah and adhere to it. He exhorted (us) (to hold fast) to the Book of Allah and then said: The second are the members of my household I remind you (of your duties) to the members of my family. He (Husain) said to Zaid: Who are the members of his household? Aren't his wives the members of his family? Thereupon he said: His wives are the members of his family (but here) the members of his family are those for whom acceptance of Zakat is forbidden. And he said: Who are they? Thereupon he said: 'Ali and the offspring of 'Ali, 'Aqil and the offspring of 'Aqil and the offspring of Ja'far and the offspring of 'Abbas. Husain said: These are those for whom the acceptance of Zakat is forbidden. Zaid said: Yes.

---------------------------


Sahih al-Tirmidhi, v5

The messenger of Allah (PBUH&HF) said: "I am leaving for you two precious and weighty Symbols that if you adhere to BOTH of them you shall not go astray after me. They are, the Book of Allah, and my progeny, that is my Ahlul-Bayt. The Merciful has informed me that These two shall not separate from each other till they come to me by the Pool (of Paradise)."
---------------------

now ur wish whom u follow QURAN AND AHL-BHAIT or sahaba :)
i am with QURAN and AHL-BHAIT

---------------------------

QURAN (017.081)

The truth has come and the falsehood has vanished; surely falsehood is a vanishing (thing).

Edited by Agha Ali, 07 August 2012 - 10:31 PM.


#72 OFFLINE   Dihyah_Kalbi

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Posted 08 August 2012 - 05:37 AM

@AGHA ALI ;
Who goes to Heaven and Hell it is the decission of Allah Only. to saying who will go where it is a shirk (exception is if rasulallah SAW have already gave the news about the individual)

But your Imam Ali doesnt Agreed with you it seems, have read nahjul Balagah ? may be not.

In the beginning of our matter, the people of Syria [Muawiyyah’s forces] and us met. It is obvious that our God is one, our Prophet is one, and our call in Islam is one. We do not see ourselves more in faith in Allah or more in believing His messenger than them, nor they do. Our matter is one, except for our disagreement in Uthman’s blood, and we are innocent from his murder.” : Nahjul Balagha

But hazrat Ali RA is not agreeing with you , both sides were muslims; so as per your logic both will Hazrat Ali , Hazrat Hasan Hazrat Hussain will also join them Hell ? is it?

"Shia Loves Ali (RA) But Hate Umar Farooq (RA);
Muslim Loves Ali(RA) and Umar Farooq(RA) and All Sahaba(RA);
'Shia say's' Shaitan Loves Ali(RA) but Hate Umar Farooq(RA);"

Shia = Shaitan (what to expect from Shaitan)

#73 OFFLINE   as300

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Posted 08 August 2012 - 06:18 AM

View PostAgha Ali, on 05 August 2012 - 08:53 PM, said:

@ as300

They are our khalifa

12 Khalifas will rule over the ummah
The ummah is not composed of a bunch of shias...
So the hadith cannot refere to shia imams because the majority of them didn't rule over the ummah
What can my enemies do to me? I have in my chest both my heaven and my garden. If I travel they are with me, never leaving me. Imprisonment for me is a chance to be alone with my Lord. To be killed is martyrdom and to be exiled from my land is a spiritual journey.

#74 OFFLINE   Dihyah_Kalbi

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Posted 08 August 2012 - 11:30 AM

View PostAgha Ali, on 07 August 2012 - 10:30 PM, said:

.........
.........

now ur wish whom u follow QURAN AND AHL-BHAIT or sahaba :)
i am with QURAN and AHL-BHAIT

Well then in that case which hadith book you we should follow Al-Kafi? Munqaṭi Book;

Did Ahlul-Bayth Said this Quran had been Corrupted? , Kulayni and major Shia Scholars have recorded this in thier book. what  Kind of Hypocrite cult(Shia) is this, on one side you say Quran and Ahlul Bayth and other side you say Quran is Corrupted.
If Quran is not safe then (Hadith's of) Ahlul Bayth is not all safe.

Common Show me 20 Sahih Narration from your Shia Books What say?

Edited by Dihyah_Kalbi, 08 August 2012 - 11:47 AM.


"Shia Loves Ali (RA) But Hate Umar Farooq (RA);
Muslim Loves Ali(RA) and Umar Farooq(RA) and All Sahaba(RA);
'Shia say's' Shaitan Loves Ali(RA) but Hate Umar Farooq(RA);"

Shia = Shaitan (what to expect from Shaitan)

#75 OFFLINE   Agha Ali

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Posted 11 August 2012 - 04:18 AM

View PostDihyah_Kalbi, on 08 August 2012 - 05:37 AM, said:

@AGHA ALI ;
Who goes to Heaven and Hell it is the decission of Allah Only. to saying who will go where it is a shirk (exception is if rasulallah SAW have already gave the news about the individual)

But your Imam Ali doesnt Agreed with you it seems, have read nahjul Balagah ? may be not.

In the beginning of our matter, the people of Syria [Muawiyyah’s forces] and us met. It is obvious that our God is one, our Prophet is one, and our call in Islam is one. We do not see ourselves more in faith in Allah or more in believing His messenger than them, nor they do. Our matter is one, except for our disagreement in Uthman’s blood, and we are innocent from his murder.” : Nahjul Balagha

But hazrat Ali RA is not agreeing with you , both sides were muslims; so as per your logic both will Hazrat Ali , Hazrat Hasan Hazrat Hussain will also join them Hell ? is it?

Your reply does not make any sense here :) and let me give u one reference from Najul Balagha :)

Najul Balagha: Letter #10

Imam Ali[AS] wrote to Muaviyah.

You have challenged me to a battle. I accept your challenge. But I have a proposal to make. Why have a war involving murder and bloodshed of thousands of ignorant people? Why be a scourge to mankind? Let us have mercy on them, whether they are sincere and Allah-fearing Muslims, or ignorant, unenlightened and greedy mercenaries misguided and fooled by you. Let there
be peace and tranquillity for all the creatures of Allah.

Let us, you and I, have a single combat. Let it be a combat unto death. Let the soldiers of both armies stand aside and let two of us alone combat with each other. Let the world see and realize who is the sinner and who has forgotten Allah and the Day of Judgement. Will you accept this invitation of mine? Have you the courage for it? Are you a man to face death boldly and bravely or are you merely a vampire sucking the blood of others surreptitiously?



--------------------------------------


Ops What IMAM ALI said ? who is sinner and who has forgotten ALLAH. Well As u know RASOOL ALLAH said i am leaving you two wealthy things QURAN AND AHL-BHAIT. SO IMAM ALI CANT BE WRONG EVER. so from this way your KALIFA MUAVIYA is SINNER AND FORGOTTEN ALLAH and will be ROASTED IN HELL.

Let me make it more simple for you :)

IF MUAVIYA WOULD HAVE WAR AGAINST QURAN  then what do u think where he would be ? in HEAVEN OR HELL ? my FAITH is that he will be KICKED IN HELL whats ur faith ? bcoz as i said before RASOOL ALLAH SAID i am leaving you two wealthy things QURAN AND AHL-BHAIT when some one would have a war against QURAN he will be in hell so same goes for AHL-BHAIT :)

#76 OFFLINE   Agha Ali

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Posted 11 August 2012 - 04:22 AM

View Postas300, on 08 August 2012 - 06:18 AM, said:

View PostAgha Ali, on 05 August 2012 - 08:53 PM, said:

@ as300

They are our khalifa

12 Khalifas will rule over the ummah
The ummah is not composed of a bunch of shias...
So the hadith cannot refere to shia imams because the majority of them didn't rule over the ummah

1st of all if you are true muslim then u should bring your 12 khalifa name in-front of me then bcoz RASOOL ALLAH didnt say there will be 4 khalifa

2nd thing its ur thinking that they didnt rule. They were ruler US THEY ARE OUR KALIFA no one has more knowledge regarding ISLAM then THEM. and as i said RASOOL ALLAH said i am leaving you TWo WEALTHY THINGS QURAN AND AHL-BHAIT. RASOOL ALLAH didnt say QURAN and SAHABA. your kalifa is some one else beside AHL-BHAIT so its direct conflict

#77 OFFLINE   Agha Ali

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Posted 11 August 2012 - 04:29 AM

View PostDihyah_Kalbi, on 08 August 2012 - 11:30 AM, said:

View PostAgha Ali, on 07 August 2012 - 10:30 PM, said:

.........
.........

now ur wish whom u follow QURAN AND AHL-BHAIT or sahaba :)
i am with QURAN and AHL-BHAIT

Well then in that case which hadith book you we should follow Al-Kafi? Munqaṭi Book;

Did Ahlul-Bayth Said this Quran had been Corrupted? , Kulayni and major Shia Scholars have recorded this in thier book. what  Kind of Hypocrite cult(Shia) is this, on one side you say Quran and Ahlul Bayth and other side you say Quran is Corrupted.
If Quran is not safe then (Hadith's of) Ahlul Bayth is not all safe.

Common Show me 20 Sahih Narration from your Shia Books What say?

TOLD you before dont change the topic :)

1st bring your self in that TRUE MUSLIM CATEGORY then we will go further. bcoz still you are conflicting.

1- Muslims KALIFA will not be in hell and your KALIFA are going in HELL which is PROVEN FROM QURAN , HADITH and LETTER OF IMAM ALI.

2- you named 12 KALIFA and what about the awaiting one which RASOOL ALLAH said will come before QAYAMAT from his blood line. EVEN IF ITS NOT IMAM MEHDI but some one will come and RULE THE MUSLIMS. so from your point of view there will be 13 KALIFA if yours,

STILL CONFLICTING.

-------------------------------------------------

QURAN (017.081)

The truth has come and the falsehood has vanished; surely falsehood is a vanishing (thing).

#78 OFFLINE   as300

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Posted 11 August 2012 - 08:59 AM

:Salam:

This narration is not a clear cut one, no authentic indication about the names of these rulers.
Hence, how can you consider yourself as a true follower of ahl ul bayt if you don't consider all ahl ul bayt. You restricted the definition of ahl ulabyt
Can you tell us why al hassan's (ra)  sons are not from "purified" ahl ul bayt: they learned at the same source...?

Why al baqir over his brother? imam zayd bin ali wasn't as good as his half-brother?
Sunni riwayah deals with caliph/successors/imam, etc ruling over the ENTIRE ummah. Why didn't they rule over the ummah for the majority of them?
You didn't answer anything: you cannot come and say that imams used to rule over a bunch of people...

Plus, how can you say imam mahdi as is ruling actually over the ummah? Can you show me this actual significant guidance? How can he be you actuel imam if you've never seen him? He's not correcting our mistakes at the moment...

Khilafah of the four rightly guided is not part of our faith...only a political problem concerning early muslims
But love for sahabah (ra) and especially these four is part of imane: you see the difference...
What can my enemies do to me? I have in my chest both my heaven and my garden. If I travel they are with me, never leaving me. Imprisonment for me is a chance to be alone with my Lord. To be killed is martyrdom and to be exiled from my land is a spiritual journey.

#79 OFFLINE   Dihyah_Kalbi

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Posted 11 August 2012 - 10:47 AM

View PostAgha Ali, on 11 August 2012 - 04:18 AM, said:

View PostDihyah_Kalbi, on 08 August 2012 - 05:37 AM, said:

@AGHA ALI ;
Who goes to Heaven and Hell it is the decission of Allah Only. to saying who will go where it is a shirk (exception is if rasulallah SAW have already gave the news about the individual)

But your Imam Ali doesnt Agree with you it seems, have read nahjul Balagah ? may be not.

In the beginning of our matter, the people of Syria [Muawiyyah’s forces] and us met. It is obvious that our God is one, our Prophet is one, and our call in Islam is one. We do not see ourselves more in faith in Allah or more in believing His messenger than them, nor they do. Our matter is one, except for our disagreement in Uthman’s blood, and we are innocent from his murder.” : Nahjul Balagha

But hazrat Ali RA is not agreeing with you , both sides were muslims; so as per your logic both will Hazrat Ali , Hazrat Hasan Hazrat Hussain will also join them Hell ? is it?

Your reply does not make any sense here :) and let me give u one reference from Najul Balagha :)
Well it makes lots of sense , because Hazrat Ali RA Confesed There are Muslims in the Camp of Syrians(during war), so he must have killed few of those in war , so as per logic your "First Imam goes to Hell". if first goes the rest follows him thr? nauzibillah this is not what we claim.
i think you should be answerin me this first ; (REFQ1)

Quote

Najul Balagha: Letter #10

Imam Ali[AS] wrote to Muaviyah.

You have challenged me to a battle. I accept your challenge. But I have a proposal to make. Why have a war involving murder and bloodshed of thousands of ignorant people? Why be a scourge to mankind? Let us have mercy on them, whether they are sincere and Allah-fearing Muslims, or ignorant, unenlightened and greedy mercenaries misguided and fooled by you. Let there
be peace and tranquillity for all the creatures of Allah.

Let us, you and I, have a single combat. Let it be a combat unto death. Let the soldiers of both armies stand aside and let two of us alone combat with each other. Let the world see and realize who is the sinner and who has forgotten Allah and the Day of Judgement. Will you accept this invitation of mine? Have you the courage for it? Are you a man to face death boldly and bravely or are you merely a vampire sucking the blood of others surreptitiously?


--------------------------------------

Ops What IMAM ALI said ? who is sinner and who has forgotten ALLAH. Well As u know RASOOL ALLAH said i am leaving you two wealthy things QURAN AND AHL-BHAIT. SO IMAM ALI CANT BE WRONG EVER. so from this way your KALIFA MUAVIYA is SINNER AND FORGOTTEN ALLAH and will be ROASTED IN HELL.

Let me make it more simple for you :)

IF MUAVIYA WOULD HAVE WAR AGAINST QURAN  then what do u think where he would be ? in HEAVEN OR HELL ? my FAITH is that he will be KICKED IN HELL whats ur faith ? bcoz as i said before RASOOL ALLAH SAID i am leaving you two wealthy things QURAN AND AHL-BHAIT when some one would have a war against QURAN he will be in hell so same goes for AHL-BHAIT :)



Well Humans are not infallible ; they make mistakes ,

Quote

IF MUAVIYA WOULD HAVE WAR AGAINST QURAN
Like as i said, according to your own logic Even Hazrat Ali RA Killed Muslims in the Camp of Hazrat Muawiyah RA (he too).  then even Hazrat ALi RA was also agaisnt quraan?



View PostAgha Ali, on 11 August 2012 - 04:22 AM, said:

1st of all if you are true muslim then u should bring your 12 khalifa name in-front of me then bcoz RASOOL ALLAH didnt say there will be 4 khalifa

2nd thing its ur thinking that they didnt rule. They were ruler US THEY ARE OUR KALIFA no one has more knowledge regarding ISLAM then THEM. and as i said RASOOL ALLAH said i am leaving you TWo WEALTHY THINGS QURAN AND AHL-BHAIT. RASOOL ALLAH didnt say QURAN and SAHABA. your kalifa is some one else beside AHL-BHAIT so its direct conflict


But where is the Ahlul Bayth now ? this earth has no guide(Imam/guide), oohhh sorry yes thr is Scared Chicken Hiding cave man; lol. your hiding Imam is a shame on your faces.

no Hazrat Muawiyah is not Going to Hell Inshallah , but you Shian-e-dajjal will surely go.
Get something concrete this is not helping, or may be call your cave man inshallah you never be able to do it.
You are behaving as ignorant as Swine eater christians, well answer this first (REFQ1).

"Shia Loves Ali (RA) But Hate Umar Farooq (RA);
Muslim Loves Ali(RA) and Umar Farooq(RA) and All Sahaba(RA);
'Shia say's' Shaitan Loves Ali(RA) but Hate Umar Farooq(RA);"

Shia = Shaitan (what to expect from Shaitan)

#80 OFFLINE   Agha Ali

Agha Ali

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Posted 15 August 2012 - 10:31 PM

View Postas300, on 11 August 2012 - 08:59 AM, said:

:Salam:

This narration is not a clear cut one, no authentic indication about the names of these rulers.
Hence, how can you consider yourself as a true follower of ahl ul bayt if you don't consider all ahl ul bayt. You restricted the definition of ahl ulabyt
Can you tell us why al hassan's (ra)  sons are not from "purified" ahl ul bayt: they learned at the same source...?

Why al baqir over his brother? imam zayd bin ali wasn't as good as his half-brother?
Sunni riwayah deals with caliph/successors/imam, etc ruling over the ENTIRE ummah. Why didn't they rule over the ummah for the majority of them?
You didn't answer anything: you cannot come and say that imams used to rule over a bunch of people...

Plus, how can you say imam mahdi as is ruling actually over the ummah? Can you show me this actual significant guidance? How can he be you actuel imam if you've never seen him? He's not correcting our mistakes at the moment...

Khilafah of the four rightly guided is not part of our faith...only a political problem concerning early muslims
But love for sahabah (ra) and especially these four is part of imane: you see the difference...

Well my brother :)

i gave u hadith so u have to bring ur 12 kalifa and ur faith walks on 4 KALIFA, so u r CONFLICTING one of ur friend gave 12 name of kalifa, in which muhawiya and yazeed comes also, do u accept them as ur KALIFA

DONT GIVE COMMENTS plz just prove ur 12 KALIFA thats all i am asking from u :)





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