18 replies to this topic

[Ahlusunnah]

Assalamualaikum,

Shia use this hadith in Musnad Ahmad

9624 - حَدَّثَنَا يَحْيَى، عَنِ ابْنِ عَجْلَانَ، قَالَ: حَدَّثَنَا سَعِيدُ بْنُ أَبِي سَعِيدٍ، عَنْ أَبِي هُرَيْرَةَ، أَنَّ رَجُلًا شَتَمَ أَبَا بَكْرٍ وَالنَّبِيُّ صَلَّى اللهُ عَلَيْهِ وَسَلَّمَ جَالِسٌ، فَجَعَلَ النَّبِيُّ صَلَّى اللهُ عَلَيْهِ وَسَلَّمَ يَعْجَبُ وَيَتَبَسَّمُ، فَلَمَّا أَكْثَرَ رَدَّ عَلَيْهِ بَعْضَ قَوْلِهِ، فَغَضِبَ النَّبِيُّ صَلَّى اللهُ عَلَيْهِ وَسَلَّمَ وَقَامَ، فَلَحِقَهُ أَبُو بَكْرٍ، فَقَالَ: يَا رَسُولَ اللهِ كَانَ يَشْتُمُنِي وَأَنْتَ جَالِسٌ، فَلَمَّا رَدَدْتُ عَلَيْهِ بَعْضَ قَوْلِهِ، غَضِبْتَ وَقُمْتَ، قَالَ: " إِنَّهُ كَانَ مَعَكَ مَلَكٌ يَرُدُّ عَنْكَ، فَلَمَّا رَدَدْتَ عَلَيْهِ بَعْضَ قَوْلِهِ، وَقَعَ الشَّيْطَانُ، فَلَمْ أَكُنْ لِأَقْعُدَ مَعَ الشَّيْطَانِ "
ثُمَّ قَالَ: " يَا أَبَا بَكْرٍ ثَلَاثٌ كُلُّهُنَّ حَقٌّ: مَا مِنْ عَبْدٍ ظُلِمَ بِمَظْلَمَةٍ فَيُغْضِي عَنْهَا لِلَّهِ عَزَّ وَجَلَّ، إِلَّا أَعَزَّ اللهُ بِهَا نَصْرَهُ، وَمَا فَتَحَ رَجُلٌ بَابَ عَطِيَّةٍ، يُرِيدُ بِهَا صِلَةً، إِلَّا زَادَهُ اللهُ بِهَا كَثْرَةً، وَمَا فَتَحَ رَجُلٌ بَابَ مَسْأَلَةٍ، يُرِيدُ بِهَا كَثْرَةً، إِلَّا زَادَهُ اللهُ عَزَّ وَجَلَّ بِهَا قِلَّةً

Please do help in translating this hadith

Syeikh Syu'aib said this hadith is hasan lighairihi

In my understanding, the prophet was smiling and amaze due to the presence of angels with Abu Bakar r.a

But shia understand this hadith as Rasulullah s.a.w love the person who curse Abu Bakar !!

What is your view?

[swords_of_sunnah]

Rasul allah(saw) was smiling on that person thinking how foolish and stupid he is. Its something in common. Even we laugh or smile when we see opponents portraying their jahalah

Edited by swords_of_sunnah, 19 August 2012 - 10:04 PM.

[saleh.neji]

this is proof that bad akhlaq pleases shaitan even if it was in retaliation for someone's bad akhlaq against us. sayidona abu bakr had the best of akhlaq radhiallahu anh but he erred here and he learned from rasool allah(saww) how things should be done.

to me this reminds me of the verse "idha khatabahom aljahiloona qalou salaman"

[saleh.neji]

the title of the topic is misleading akhi ahsunnah please change it.

the prophet was not smiling to that person or encouraging him in anyway but he smiled because he was pleased with abu bakr(ra) when he kept silent.

[Ebn Hussein]

Brother Rawafidh have a DISEASE in their hearts like ALL Mushriks have, for Allah's sake, they believe The Prophet (صل الله عليه و سلم) went around and gave his wives and people who believed in him NICKNAMES to MOCK them, examples:

- Rafidah believe the Prophet called Abu Hurayrah, Abu Hurayrah (the father of the kitten) to BELITTLE him!
- Rafidah believe the Prophet called 'Aaisha, AL-HUMAYRA (the reddish) one to BELITTLE her (they, like Yassir Al-Habib believe that she had a menstrual illness that made her bleed all the time)!

The Rafidah are a sick people, may Allah guide their youth to Islam.

Edited by Ebn Hussein, 19 August 2012 - 10:29 PM.

[Ahlusunnah]

saleh.neji, on 19 August 2012 - 10:23 PM, said:

the title of the topic is misleading akhi ahsunnah please change it.

the prophet was not smiling to that person or encouraging him in anyway but he smiled because he was pleased with abu bakr(ra) when he kept silent.

saleh.neji, on 19 August 2012 - 10:23 PM, said:

the title of the topic is misleading akhi ahsunnah please change it.

the prophet was not smiling to that person or encouraging him in anyway but he smiled because he was pleased with abu bakr(ra) when he kept silent.

Shia use this topic to misled the people. I use the same title so that we can refute together

[UmarBinKhatab]

saleh.neji, on 19 August 2012 - 10:17 PM, said:

this is proof that bad akhlaq pleases shaitan even if it was in retaliation for someone's bad akhlaq against us.

You are absolutely right but let me complete your sentence.

Bad akhlaq in relatiation -between believers- pleases shaytan as shaytan loves to see division among believers. But bad akhlaq is not liked by shaytan towards disbelievers as he hates to see division between believers and disbelievers.

When worst is allowed against kafir -killing- then what is abusing or showing bad akhlaq in retaliation. This is reason why we see Iblees sending his cronies to us to promot unity between believers and mushrikeen.

[saleh.neji]

this shia guy is indirectly insulting the prophet(saww) unintentionally because if he is saying that the prophet was smiling with pleasure for the behaviour of the guy insulting abu bakr(ra) then this is an accusation against the prophet(saww) that he loves to listen to bad language and encourages it astaghfirollah. rasool allah never said a bad word and never wanted to listen to bad language.

brother umeribnkhattab you are wrong akhi. bad akhlaq is bad akhlaq no matter what. may allah guide us all akhi

[MohammadMufti]

Quote

When worst is allowed against kafir -killing- then what is abusing or showing bad akhlaq in retaliation.

There was a man who was joking about the Sahaba (ra). The prophet didn't retaliate to this man. He didn't mock him or anything. He simply told the man that he'd left Islam by this action. There are times for abuse, and there are times for patience - you can't give dawah to a man while calling him a son of muta. You'll just drive him away from Islam. When you're fighting someone, obviously you don't show them "akhlaq", but when you're giving dawah, you can't make an hour long speech about what an idiot he and his ancestors are and only devote one minute to show him his error.

Nobody is promoting unity with kufar, and anybody who does that isn't right. But not agreeing with someone's deviance doesn't mean we should start making fun of them or their gods, essentially pushing them further into their own deviance.

[saleh.neji]

MohammadMufti, on 20 August 2012 - 11:39 AM, said:

Quote

When worst is allowed against kafir -killing- then what is abusing or showing bad akhlaq in retaliation.

There was a man who was joking about the Sahaba (ra). The prophet didn't retaliate to this man. He didn't mock him or anything. He simply told the man that he'd left Islam by this action. There are times for abuse, and there are times for patience - you can't give dawah to a man while calling him a son of muta. You'll just drive him away from Islam. When you're fighting someone, obviously you don't show them "akhlaq", but when you're giving dawah, you can't make an hour long speech about what an idiot he and his ancestors are and only devote one minute to show him his error.

Nobody is promoting unity with kufar, and anybody who does that isn't right. But not agreeing with someone's deviance doesn't mean we should start making fun of them or their gods, essentially pushing them further into their own deviance.

barakallahu feek akhi.

[AbuMuslimKhorasani]

saleh.neji, on 20 August 2012 - 11:38 AM, said:

this shia guy is indirectly insulting the prophet(saww) unintentionally because if he is saying that the prophet was smiling with pleasure for the behaviour of the guy insulting abu bakr(ra) then this is an accusation against the prophet(saww) that he loves to listen to bad language and encourages it astaghfirollah. rasool allah never said a bad word and never wanted to listen to bad language.

brother umeribnkhattab you are wrong akhi. bad akhlaq is bad akhlaq no matter what. may allah guide us all akhi

Well said. If I remember correctly there is a narration in Shia Hadeeth books where Usman [ra] swears at Ali [ra], so He[ra] goes and complains to the Prophet (saw). The Prophet (saw) tells Ali [ra] to go and swear back at Usman [ra].

Astaghferullah!

[UmarBinKhatab]

MohammadMufti, on 20 August 2012 - 11:39 AM, said:

There was a man who was joking about the Sahaba (ra). The prophet didn't retaliate to this man. He didn't mock him or anything. He simply told the man that he'd left Islam by this action. There are times for abuse, and there are times for patience - you can't give dawah to a man while calling him a son of muta. You'll just drive him away from Islam. When you're fighting someone, obviously you don't show them "akhlaq", but when you're giving dawah, you can't make an hour long speech about what an idiot he and his ancestors are and only devote one minute to show him his error.

I don't know which incident you are referring but again it seems the one who abused was a muslim and not kafir. As for the kuffar and munafiqeen, during ifk incident prophet (saw) enquired 'Who will relieve me from that man who has hurt me with his evil statement about my family?'  at this ' Sad bin Mu'adh the brother of Banu 'Abd Al-Ashhal got up and said, 'O Allah's Apostle! I will relieve you from him; if he is from the tribe of Al-Aus, then I will chop his head off.

I don't mind about dawa to a peaceful and self respecting shia but the one who comes and abuses someone we consider above our mothers (mother of believers) and fathers (sahaba), then throw away akhlaq somewhere else.

MohammadMufti, on 20 August 2012 - 11:39 AM, said:

Quote

...showing bad akhlaq in retaliation.

Nobody is promoting unity with kufar, and anybody who does that isn't right. But not agreeing with someone's deviance doesn't mean we should start making fun of them or their gods, essentially pushing them further into their own deviance.

No one said we should start first, this is the reason I wrote -in retaliation- and underlined it.

Second it is wrong to say shia believe Mehdi is their god, you can say 'Nid' - partner with Allah or demi-god (someone who share powers with Allah) just like what brelvis do with their saints.

And if shia comes and says Mehdi is their Allah, then we must follow sunnah of Mosa (as) and do as he did to god of bani-Israel (calf), burnt it and threw its ashes in river. Its because shias are not original kuffar and they shouldn't be treated as such but as apostates. They believe in Allah and his messenger just like jews who believed in Allah and his messenger (Mosa). And after this if they try to introduce new god to Islam, it will actually harm the image of Islam infront of original kuffar, so their diety shouldn't be dealt with respect but should meet the faith of calf of bani Israel.

So don't try to bring in the aya of abusing gods of idol worshippers here, this has got nothing to do with shia mehdi. Also the aya about abusing gods of idol worshippers is not absolute as Abu Bakr (ra) used extremely aggressive and insulting language against female goddess of idol-worshippers some six year after the aya was revealed which prevented muslims from abusing idols. Prophet (saw) kept silent at Abu Bakr's abuse to god of mushrikeen is a proof taken by scholars that it is allowed to use such language in respond to those who mistreat the leaders of the believers and the noble ones amongst us.

Ibn Hajar al-'Asqalani commenting on this narration said:
"This entails permissibility of uttering foul words in order to teach a lesson to the one who deserves such treatment."

Edited by UmarBinKhatab, 20 August 2012 - 04:16 PM.

[Mythbuster1]

Umar bin khattab

Second it is wrong to say shia believe Mehdi is their god, you can say 'Nid' - partner with Allah or demi-god (someone who share powers with Allah) just like what brelvis do with their saints.


Mythbuster1

Lols brother i am BRAILWY sunni muslim and this statement of yours is your own opinion and what you percieve of it ALL POWER IS ALLAH'S SUBHANAWATALLAH HE CAN GIVE SOME OF HIS POWER TO WHOMEVER HE WILLS you may either know of it or you wont but dont generalise what you percieve or think stop making sly digs like this at your brothers it keeps hatred going we are from one family we take knowledge from the same springs maliki shafi hanbali hanafi i dont want to comment further cos it will deviate from the topic i just had to say my piece for i am a brailwy sunni!!

[saleh.neji]

what does it  mean brailwy sunni akhi ? i know it means sufi but what differentiate between you and other sufis ?

Edited by saleh.neji, 21 August 2012 - 12:30 PM.

[Ebn Hussein]

It means he is a blind follower of a sub-continent village-mullah, Molvi Saab.

[UmarBinKhatab]

Mythbuster1, on 21 August 2012 - 12:06 PM, said:

Lols brother i am BRAILWY sunni muslim and this statement of yours is your own opinion and what you percieve of it ALL POWER IS ALLAH'S SUBHANAWATALLAH HE CAN GIVE SOME OF HIS POWER TO WHOMEVER HE WILLS you may either know of it or you wont but dont generalise what you percieve or think stop making sly digs like this at your brothers it keeps hatred going we are from one family we take knowledge from the same springs maliki shafi hanbali hanafi i dont want to comment further cos it will deviate from the topic i just had to say my piece for i am a brailwy sunni!!

Alhamdulillah it seems I know believes of brelvi more than you...anyway as you said lets stick to the topic as I don't want to drag into it and break the rules..

[MohammadMufti]

Quote

I don't know which incident you are referring but again it seems the one who abused was a muslim and not kafir.

The riwayah was about a Muslim. He was abusing the Sahaba (ra) and he was only joking. The Prophet (saw) told him he had left the fold. Even after the Prophet (saw) told him his status, he did not retaliate for the honor of the Sahaba (ra) by mocking that man or his friends/relatives. Brother, if you can bring the words of any scholar you follow today, and he gave you the fatwa that if fulan Rafidi abuses Umm ul Mumineen (ra) or sheykhan (ra), than instead of giving the jaahil dawah, you should abuse him or joke about his mother in retaliation, wallahi I'll shut up.

Quote

during ifk incident

Did the Prophet than actually have the man killed? Did the Prophet (saw) abuse the munafiq's family or the munafiq himself in retaliation? Or did he ultimately simply stress the truth, and the people believed the truthful one (saw)?

Edited by MohammadMufti, 22 August 2012 - 08:43 AM.

[Mythbuster1]

Umar ibn khattab



Alhamdulillah it seems I know believes of brelvi more than you...anyway as you said lets stick to the topic as I don't want to drag into it and break the rules..



Mythbuster1

Subhanallah you cannot even spell BELIEFS!!Never mind the meaning of the word! I am pretty sure you know nothing but thats another story !!

[UmarBinKhatab]

MohammadMufti, on 22 August 2012 - 08:15 AM, said:

Brother, if you can bring the words of any scholar you follow today, and he gave you the fatwa that if fulan Rafidi abuses Umm ul Mumineen (ra) or sheykhan (ra), than instead of giving the jaahil dawah, you should abuse him or joke about his mother in retaliation, wallahi I'll shut up.

Since you insist on asking for proof, then here we go

When Urwa said to Mohammad (saw) your companions will run away from you and leave you all alone, Abu Bakr (ra) got up and said “Go and suck on the clitoris of al-Laat! Would we desert him?”

Note: Arabs used to abuse each other by saying suck your mother's clitoris, but Abu Bakr wanted to make it even more insulting and hence instead of cussing his mother, he cussed his goddess.

Ibn Battal said commenting on above incident:
"This is how one must respond to those who mistreat the leaders of the people and the noble ones amongst them, and accuses them of running away"


Commenting on the verse (Allah does not like the public mention of evil except by one who has been wronged.)

Abdul-Karim bin Malik Al-Jazari said; "When a man curses you, you could curse him in retaliation. But if he lies about you, you may not lie about him."

Abu Dawud recorded that Abu Hurayrah said that the Messenger of Allah said, "Whatever words are uttered by those who curse each other, then he who started it will carry the burden thereof, unless the one who was wronged transgresses the limit."


Abbas al-Dory narrated in -Tareekh- 'I heard Yahya bin Mu'aeen saying "And who is Mina - i.e. the narrator: Mina bin Abi Mina - the one who sucks the clitoris of his mother until he speaks about sahaba?"

MohammadMufti, on 22 August 2012 - 08:15 AM, said:

than instead of giving the jaahil dawah,

How could you continue giving dawa to one who start cursing and abusing sahaba or your biological mother?

Live example

Quote

http://www.youtube.c...s?v=1CCG8hgasNQ

Rafidi Starts

• U SUNIS ARE KAFAR PRO USA N ISRAEL JST OPEN UR EYES .. ali hassan hussain where like us humans bt they where true muslims

mohsen8sabahi in reply to amskhan2007 (Show the comment) 4 months ago

Me

• Define the term Kufar Islamically. Sunnis are not pro USA and Israel, but its Iran and your shia scholars who are pro USA and Israel. U got this info from a priest in Hussainiyats, now I suggest you open news channels and see who is fighting USA in Afghanistan and Iraq and who is helping supporting them.

Open ur eyes and save urself from polytheist cult which call you to worship Ali, Hussein and tell you to crawl to their graves like reptiles and beat urself like chimps. Wak up.
amskhan2007 in reply to mohsen8sabahi (Show the comment) 4 months ago

Rafidi

• MY friend i see everything saudi king drinking with american presedent n israel n jordan n qatar are pro israel they have the best secret serves in the region not cuz they are strong cuz there a evil power helping,,my shia scholers if u talk to them ur turn i promis they will shut ur mouth n make u cry ,, answer this 11 emmam all killed poisend beheaded why?? by who ?? for what reason study this n come back to me,,some shia are liers n kafars ,wahabi teaching kids to la3an evry religion bt them

mohsen8sabahi in reply to amskhan2007 (Show the comment) 4 months ago

Me

• The secularist arab states u mention are open allies of US, while Iran even though it calls itself Islamic republic, is hidden ally of US and Israel. But recent events in Afghanistan and Iraq have exposed Iran completely. I ask you why was Umar, Uthman and Ali killed? Why don't you remember Abu Bakr, Umar and Uthman who got martyred at Karbala? Why don't you cry for Hamza? But the main question is why do you worship Imams and not Allah? Invocation is best form of worship as stated by your Imams.

amskhan2007 in reply to mohsen8sabahi (Show the comment) 4 months ago

Rafidi ends

• ur mother is satanic bitch,,shia is the true islam u knw it 11 emmams klilled by ur kafar khalifas can u explain this???ur pro usa and israel were fighting them ,,plz open ur eyes

mohsen8sabahi in reply to Islam1491 (Show the comment) 4 months ago

Me

• The moment I say to myself may be this rafidi is too ignorant about his devilish cult & must be brainwashed by them, I get shock with their ugly replies. No one starts abusing others mothers except who hates his own mother. Get off my page cause I don't entertain such people here.

amskhan2007 in reply to mohsen8sabahi (Show the comment) 4 months ago

http://www.youtube.c...s?v=K6GXrd8BMcc

Quote

• kos omak yamanaik yawahabi ya ibn alkafer , ALSHEEA TOOJ ROAOUSKUM Yamanaik
  kknaeb 7 months ago
  
• Just a bright example of how rafidah are brought up, look at him cursing my mother simply because I called him to worship Allah and exposed the shirk preached by his devil ayatullats. But its natural to expect such behaviour from someone born to a mut'ah whore, this is what that prostitute taught him since his childhood.
  amskhan2007 in reply to kknaeb (Show the comment) 7 months ago

Now ask yourself, is these animal worth giving dawa to?

MohammadMufti, on 22 August 2012 - 08:15 AM, said:

Quote

during ifk incident

Did the Prophet than actually have the man killed?

No because the man did not made those accusations openly, this is the reason why he escaped punishment when innocence of Ayesha (ra) was revealed from the Heaven. Those who transmitted this news were punished whereas the biggest of them (the one invented this false accusation) then Allah promised him painful torment.

Another reason for not killing him was that prophet (saw) feared kuffar will start propaganda against him among their people that Muhammad kills his companions.

MohammadMufti, on 22 August 2012 - 08:15 AM, said:

Did the Prophet (saw) abuse the munafiq's family or the munafiq himself in retaliation? Or did he ultimately simply stress the truth, and the people believed the truthful one (saw)?

Why would head of state abuse when he can punish or kill him? Again why will he (as) abuse when the man didn't even admit what he said about Ayesha (ra)?


Anyway sometimes we must make rafidah taste their own medicine to prevent them from using it on us. Like what Ibn Hajar al-Asqalani said: "To prevent the one who started it first"

And I have one formula which worked and is 100% effective. Whenever a rafidi starts abusing our mothers, I use this formula, and then next I discover is rafidi withhelding his abuses without my need to delete them. lol

Below is just one case out of many where rafidah withheld their abuses by themselves after reading my reply.

http://www.youtube.c...s?v=6mJsyjZjcng

Edited by UmarBinKhatab, 22 August 2012 - 04:27 PM.