Jhangvi

LOCKED Q & A Session: Farid vs Wasil (Walid)

66 posts in this topic

After the debate came to end, the house is open for Ques & Ans. Debaters are requested to chair the event and refrain from commenting onto the opponent debater's comments/answers please. This session has no time limit, until the debater himself decides to leave/finish in particular.

[warning]Forum members posting their questions upon the debaters, must remember:

- restrict yourself to the debate topic's contents, do not go off-topic
- avoid bombardment of questions in one go
- be specific and to the point
- no name calling, praising or hate speech words
- avoid posting comments for the debate
- refrain from making this session a fish-market

[b]Note: Members not following the rules of Q & A session, will be banned from this specific topic[/b][/warning]
With this all, I announce the session as open!
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Since me too is a student of knowledge, so let me pose a question....

to [b]Farid:[/b]

During your debate, you used some terms like [b][i]an'ana[/i][/b] for which I hope many of the viewers are not aware of. Could you please elaborate it in a simple way, with 1-2 examples, so that the viewers could understand. Thanks
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The term [i]'anana[/i] refers to the usage of the term [i]'an [/i]when narrating from another narrator.

The usage of the term is somewhat of a short cut, instead of saying longer words, like [i]hadathana[/i] (he narrated to us) or [i]hadathani[/i] (he narrated to me).

So, instead of saying:

a) [i]hadathana [/i]Efendi [i]qaal hadathana[/i] Kalaam (Efendi told us that Kalaam told us)

One can get away with saying:

b) [i]'an [/i]Efendi [i]'an [/i]Kalaam

Even though this doesn't seem to mean much, it actually does when you realize that hadith narrators spent days upon days writing nothing but hadiths with their chains, so it would cut their work load to some extent. Edited by Farid
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An important observation, though not related to the debates topic. The name calling. Farid did not call his opponent by names nor did he mock him, on the other hand, the debater Waleed (who is over 36years old i.e. MUCH older than Farid) did not only used childish nicknames (like FariDOV), but even went so far and said things like Farid Al-Shareed (the homeless). He also posted childish youtube videos and as I said before called Farid by names, whereas Farid NEVER, not even once did such a thing. Hence, Baaraka Allaahu feek Farid.

Oh, there is one thing definately related to the topic, and I guess every reader, Shia, Sunnah, non-Muslim, whatever will have recognised it, namely that Waleed (often acting very arrogant and acting smart in my opinion) presented a good number of narrations to discredit his true master sayyidinah Abi Hurayrah (radiya Allahu 'anhu), just to find out that the narration he used was narrated AT LEAST by another Sahabi too (i.e. it is def. no invention of Abu Hurayrah), all we heard then was: "Ooops fair enough". I mean, fair enough that he acknowledged his mistake, but this should be a warning to every single enemy of Abi Hurayrah who will maybe end up like Waleed saying:"Ooops fair enough .. Oh, is it Anas bin Malik narrated it too? Ok, fair enough !!! etc etc.

What I benefitted personally (and I think all Sunnah brothers): The biggest benifit was to realising how flimsy the so called "arguments" of the Shia against Abu Hurayrah are. In many if not most cases (i.e. the Hadith the Rafidah love to attack) his Hadith are NOT unique (i.e. being narrated buy other Sahabah too, including BANI HASHIMIS like Ibn ABBAS), and if this was not the case then I merely saw bias from the Shia side.

رضي الله عن راوي السنة النبوية
[i]أبو هريرة الدوسي[/i][color=#222222][font=arial, sans-serif][size=2] اليماني[/size][/font][/color]

Baaraka Allaah wa jazaaka Allaahu khayr Al Jazaa' Akhi Farid and thanks to Walid, everyone has to give him some credit for at least he showed up, unlike the Zanaadiqah of [not allowed].

[warning]Members are again requested, to post your relevant queries pertaining to the debate please, since this is Ques & Ans session only, not a general/review topic.[/warning] Edited by Jhangvi
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I have a couple of questions directed to the two debaters:

1- Did any one of the two feel at any time during the debate that the other side was the right one, even if it was only for a moment, did Farid feel that the allegations against Abu Huraira had some truth in them or did Walid feel the same about Ibrahim ibn Hashim ?

2- Are your opinions any different about the two when compared to what you thought about them before the debate ? Edited by m_s_a
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[quote]
1- Did any one of the two feel at any time during the debate that the other side was the right one, even if it was only for a moment, did Farid feel that the allegations against Abu Huraira had some truth in them or did Walid feel the same about Ibrahim ibn Hashim ?[/quote]

[quote] 2- Are your opinions any different about the two when compared to what you thought about them before the debate ? [/quote]

Ironically, at the very beginning of the debate, and Allah is my witness, I used to raise my hands and ask Allah to guide me to truth if it was with Walid. However, as the debate continued, the more I realized that he was wrong in his defence of Ibrahim bin Hashim. So, it was quite the opposite. I seemed to be more hesitant regarding the weakness of Ibrahim bin Hashim, and I became more sure towards the end.
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[quote name='Ebn Hussein' timestamp='1323319666' post='105843']
An important observation, though not related to the debates topic. The name calling. Farid did not call his opponent by names nor did he mock him, on the other hand, the debater Waleed (who is over 36years old i.e. MUCH older than Farid) did not only used childish nicknames (like FariDOV), but even went so far and said things like Farid Al-Shareed (the homeless). He also posted childish youtube videos and as I said before called Farid by names, whereas Farid NEVER, not even once did such a thing. Hence, Baaraka Allaahu feek Farid.

Oh, there is one thing definately related to the topic, and I guess every reader, Shia, Sunnah, non-Muslim, whatever will have recognised it, namely that Waleed (often acting very arrogant and acting smart in my opinion) presented a good number of narrations to discredit his true master sayyidinah Abi Hurayrah (radiya Allahu 'anhu), just to find out that the narration he used was narrated AT LEAST by another Sahabi too (i.e. it is def. no invention of Abu Hurayrah), all we heard then was: "Ooops fair enough". I mean, fair enough that he acknowledged his mistake, but this should be a warning to every single enemy of Abi Hurayrah who will maybe end up like Waleed saying:"Ooops fair enough .. Oh, is it Anas bin Malik narrated it too? Ok, fair enough !!! etc etc.

What I benefitted personally (and I think all Sunnah brothers): The biggest benifit was to realising how flimsy the so called "arguments" of the Shia against Abu Hurayrah are.[color="#ff0000"] In many if not most cases (i.e. the Hadith the Rafidah love to attack) his Hadith are NOT unique (i.e. being narrated buy other Sahabah too, including BANI HASHIMIS like Ibn ABBAS), and if this was not the case then I merely saw bias from the Shia side.[/color]

رضي الله عن راوي السنة النبوية
[i]أبو هريرة الدوسي[/i][color="#222222"][font="arial, sans-serif"][size="2"] اليماني[/size][/font][/color]

Baaraka Allaah wa jazaaka Allaahu khayr Al Jazaa' Akhi Farid and thanks to Walid, everyone has to give him some credit for at least he showed up, unlike the Zanaadiqah of [not allowed].

[warning]Members are again requested, to post your relevant queries pertaining to the debate please, since this is Ques & Ans session only, not a general/review topic.[/warning][/quote]
yes in many cases his hadith has muta'ba'a if you want (meaning he narrated hadith wich was narrated by others ) and in these cases i think i was fair in not pushing it upon my opponent because if you followed the debate closely i did accept to drop any accusation against abu hurairah when i realize that he didn't narrate certain hadiths exclusively and i think Farid has seen how fair i am compared to many shia he debated because to me to carry on accusing abu hurairah about a hadith others also narrated is unfair.

but many hadiths i showed were narrated by him exclusively.

[warning]Wasil, you are requested to please stick to the specific Q & A session exclusively. The debate is now over, so there is no need for commenting or quoting any further narrations or quotes. I am sorry but to remove such comments, if found (this applies both for you and Farid). I hope you would abide the norms and would concentrate on questions posed, please.[/warning] Edited by Jhangvi
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[quote name='m_s_a' timestamp='1323320809' post='105845']
I have a couple of questions directed to the two debaters:

1- Did any one of the two feel at any time during the debate that the other side was the right one, even if it was only for a moment, did Farid feel that the allegations against Abu Huraira had some truth in them or did Walid feel the same about Ibrahim ibn Hashim ?
[/quote]

I didn't doubt Ibrahim ibn hashim (rah) but yes there was instances where Farid was right and i was wrong.
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to [b]Wasil:[/b]

During the debate, those Ahadith of Abu Huraira [ra] which you raised, and which were answered by Farid and you accepted their [i]Shawahid[/i], does it means that you dropped that point?

P.S: Sorry, the answer already given by you, since technically when I posted, in back-end you replied to [b]Ebn Hussein[/b] in his post. So, disregard my question, thanks.
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[quote name='Jhangvi' timestamp='1323324101' post='105852']
to [b]Wasil:[/b]

During the debate, those Ahadith of Abu Huraira [ra] which you raised, and which were answered by Farid and you accepted their [i]Shawahid[/i], does it means that you dropped that point?
[/quote]

absolutely. as it would be unfair to accuse abu hurairah if the hadith is narrated by others.
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بسم الله الرحمن الرحيم
السلام عليكم ورحمة الله وبركاته
First off, while i generally dislike debates, i certainly learned a lot from this one. It was a very high level debate masha'Allah so i suppose i should thank you both for that alhamdulillah.

i'll probably have more questions later one, but i suppose i start off with this one:
- Brother Farid, what evidences would you require to believe that Ibrahim al-Qummi was thiqa?
- Brother Walid, what evidences would you require to believe that Aba Hurairah was thiqa?

And flipping it on it's head:
- Brother Farid, what evidences would you require to believe that Aba Hurairah [b]wasn't[/b] thiqa?
- Brother Walid, what evidences would you require to believe that Ibrahim al-Qummi [b]wasn't[/b] thiqa? Edited by lotfilms
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[quote name='lotfilms' timestamp='1323357287' post='105875']
بسم الله الرحمن الرحيم
السلام عليكم ورحمة الله وبركاته
First off, while i generally dislike debates, i certainly learned a lot from this one. It was a very high level debate masha'Allah so i suppose i should thank you both for that alhamdulillah.

i'll probably have more questions later one, but i suppose i start off with this one:
- Brother Farid, what evidences would you require to believe that Ibrahim al-Qummi was thiqa?
- Brother Walid, what evidences would you require to believe that Aba Hurairah was thiqa?

And flipping it on it's head:
- Brother Farid, what evidences would you require to believe that Aba Hurairah [b]wasn't[/b] thiqa?
- Brother Walid, what evidences would you require to believe that Ibrahim al-Qummi [b]wasn't[/b] thiqa?
[/quote]

salam brother lotfilms ! long time no see !!

i think the debate includes answers to your questions akhi be it directly or indirectly but if you want the meaning of wathqa to me which would answer some of your questions then I believe the thiqat must be consistent in his hadith and renown for his hadith which must be clean and there's many signs for this like direct or indirect tawtheeq or reliance of most scholars if not all upon his hadith in a way that would make us re-assured when we say this is hadith of rasool allah (saww) or masoom (as) and other signs explained by Rijel and hadith experts.

ws Edited by Wasil
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hmm as i dont have knowledge of Ilmul Hadith and Rijal so i couldnt get much benefit from this debate, but i definitely would like to appreciate the knowledge which you both guys have and hopefully this debate will definitely help a lot for those who have keen interest in Ilmul Rijal..

my question to both you guys (bro Farid and Wasil)
were there any point where you both had agreed upon?

bro Frarid : were there any valid points of bro Walid where you felt bit uncomfortable to answer / handle ?

bro Walid : were there any valid points of bro Farid where you felt bit uncomfortable to answer / handle ?
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[quote name='m_s_a' timestamp='1323320809' post='105845']
2- Are your opinions any different about the two when compared to what you thought about them before the debate ?
[/quote]

Mine is the same wallahu alam


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[quote name='msameer' timestamp='1323359739' post='105878']
hmm as i dont have knowledge of Ilmul Hadith and Rijal so i couldnt get much benefit from this debate, but i definitely would like to appreciate the knowledge which you both guys have and hopefully this debate will definitely help a lot for those who have keen interest in Ilmul Rijal..

my question to both you guys (bro Farid and Wasil)
were there any point where you both had agreed upon?

bro Frarid : were there any valid points of bro Walid where you felt bit uncomfortable to answer / handle ?

bro Walid : were there any valid points of bro Farid where you felt bit uncomfortable to answer / handle ?
[/quote]

salam alaykom

yes we have agreed upon few things like not accusing any of the narrators if his hadith is narrated by others and solely by one of them and other things.

yes Farid cornered me badly about the issue of nawadir al-himah and how can we know for sure who is a narrator from nawadir and who isn't but he actually helped me reach a solid theory about it so as you would say i managed to get out of the corner wallahu alam.
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