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Jhangvi

General Discussion: Debate - Farid vs Wasil

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Knowing Walid, he is his own man, and will not get attached to anyone's definition of Sunnism other than his own. So, out of curiosity, Hani, have you had a chance to ask Walid what was his stance regarding Sunni hadith compilations? How about Shia hadith compilations? Are those acceptable for him as well? Does he find the hadiths of Abu Huraira to be acceptable?

Either way, I am glad Walid has made this decision, even if nothing has changed other than his view regarding the [i]isma [/i]of the Imams, that is still more than satisfying for me.
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@Farid,

I didn't question him, it's not like it was an interview, I never asked "Why" or "How" he converted, but the man follows Maliki Fiqh, which is taken from the narrations of the Prophet (SAWS).
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[quote]but the man follows Maliki Fiqh[/quote]

Ah, that is good.
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People we shouldn't wait for a man to change at once. If he stood on this way inshAllah sooner or later he would become stronger on the way of Sunnah.
Also it is worse to mention that following Maliki fiqh doesn't mean becoming sunni. Because this is fiqh mazhab, and not a mazhab of aqeedah.But if person would refrain from shirk, quluw, and abusing, cursing and etc, inshAllah his tashayu wouldn't harm him in any way. What could be better shield for a person in the doomsday than attaching himself to the love of Noble Family?
But we shouldn't accept anyone as a salaf unless he would properly announce his stance on major issues in Islam regarding Aqeedah and other things. Taking into consideration that previously he followed not correct path.
Let us be honest, Walid never was proper Isna-Ashari. Because he was too smart for that. From what I have seen he was attached to Tawhid al-Uluhiya and he use to smash shirk in the belief of Isna-Ashariyah.


Wa Allahu Alam.
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[quote name='Farid' timestamp='1337722701' post='115334']
Ah, that is good.[/quote]
Mr.Farid this is what you wanted:

[quote][b]the reason is that I coudln't cope with the emotional conflict anymore. some sahabah and ummahatol momineen ridhwan allahi alaihim i was brought up to love and cherish since childhood and i found myself attacking them and that hurt me too much and also the cursing that became a religion really put me off big deal. adding to this that i always believed that the purpose of our creation is to worship allah through islam and i thought: why wouldn't i follow a simple more straightforward islam where i don't lose neither ali(as) and ahlbait or sahabah ridhwan allahi alaihim. My aqeedah is simple : belief in Allah and his prophets and messengers and his angeels and the paradise and hell and qadha and qadar etc all this without any philosophical trauma and too deep analysis that only gives me headache and doubt. sunnism is more inclusive and simple.I know Farid is expecting an academic answer but there's no secrets formulas i just followed my heart. wallahu alam and may he have mercy on me[/b][/quote]
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Assalaamu `Alaykum,

Interesting, Walid/Wasil was the one who called me a [i]muqassir[/i], because I denied [i]tawassul, [/i]when we had a conversation one day. He told me that for sinners like it, it is one of the best forms to have our [i]du`aa [/i]answered. Since he is against the deviations of the Sufis, maybe you can ask him about [i]tawassul[/i], and what is his view regarding it.

Wa `Alaykum Assalaam
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@Nader,

[quote][b]yes i do believe in tawassol and this is the view of jomhour of the scholars in North africa but i don't believe in "zawaya" when graves are used for shirk billeh instead of a mere source of remembrance of "akhira". i am against "qubouriah" and tawassol is something and tasawoof is something.Tawassol has its "adaab" : we had a great scholar called noori safaqoosi who was hard on people committing shirk in the name of tawassol and he attacked all this sufi dancing and bid'as may allah guide them and me. we have allamah bin ashour rahimahollah who explained this as well. I don't want to enter a debate with nader as i had enough with these debates but i just wanted to answer his question.[/b][/quote]
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Assalaamu `Alaykum[quote name='Hani' timestamp='1337806991' post='115371']
@Nader,

[quote][b]yes i do believe in tawassol and this is the view of jomhour of the scholars in North africa but i don't believe in "zawaya" when graves are used for shirk billeh instead of a mere source of remembrance of "akhira". i am against "qubouriah" and tawassol is something and tasawoof is something.Tawassol has its "adaab" : we had a great scholar called noori safaqoosi who was hard on people committing shirk in the name of tawassol and he attacked all this sufi dancing and bid'as may allah guide them and me. we have allamah bin ashour rahimahollah who explained this as well. I don't want to enter a debate with nader as i had enough with these debates but i just wanted to answer his question.[/b][/quote][/quote]
Fair enough, wasn't looking for a debate. Tell him to get better inshaa'Allaah, he is in our [i]du`aas[/i].

Wa `Alaykum Assalaam.


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[quote name='Zeshan Zaveri' timestamp='1337650054' post='115275']
If this is true I offer my condolences to brother Wasil.
[/quote]
I don't think your sect is at loss. Even during his shia days he opposed people who cursed Abi Bakr (ra) and Umar (ra).
He also opposed the authenticity of ziyrat al Ashura.
As a 'Jafari' he opposed the collection of khumms from non-imams.
In the reality he was a liability against 12er Shia. Now that he claims to be a non-12er the 12er can easily classify him as a Nasibi, since it is the 12er shia view to do so.
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[quote name='Efendi' timestamp='1337723003' post='115335']
People we shouldn't wait for a man to change at once. If he stood on this way inshAllah sooner or later he would become stronger on the way of Sunnah.
Also it is worse to mention that following Maliki fiqh doesn't mean becoming sunni. Because this is fiqh mazhab, and not a mazhab of aqeedah.But if person would refrain from shirk, quluw, and abusing, cursing and etc, inshAllah his tashayu wouldn't harm him in any way. What could be better shield for a person in the doomsday than attaching himself to the love of Noble Family?
But we shouldn't accept anyone as a salaf unless he would properly announce his stance on major issues in Islam regarding Aqeedah and other things. Taking into consideration that previously he followed not correct path.
Let us be honest, Walid never was proper Isna-Ashari. Because he was too smart for that. From what I have seen he was attached to Tawhid al-Uluhiya and he use to smash shirk in the belief of Isna-Ashariyah.


Wa Allahu Alam.
[/quote]

Scholars like Fadlallah are already declared outside the fold of 12er shiaism. They in reality are seen by the 12ers as a liability. So if people like that become Sunnis its actually a victory for 12ers.
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From Wasil (brother hani knows):

[quote]after discussion with my father yesterday i see clearer now and i declare that i am a sunni upon the madhab of my tunisians forefathers and people. I bear witness that i am not a twelver in anyway and that i chose what allah chose after rasool allah : abu bakr then omar then othman then ali radhiallahu anhom ajma'een.
i apologize to hazrat abu hurairah radhiallahu anh and i declare that he was a truthful sahabi and a pious man who helped convey sunnah to us. i repent from attacking any sahabi no matter what he did as these are people allah(swt) chose for his prophet (saww). i don't want to enter any philosophical matters anymore and i am just one of the muslims and from the weakest among them. I apologize to any brother or sister i hurt his/her feelings intentionally and unintentionally and i forgive anyone who hurt me the same way. i testify that umm almomineen ayesha is my mother and i hope she forgives me so that allah forgives me. Allah is my witness that this is how i feel and this is my belief now. astaghfirollah from any stupid takfeer i did against any muslim astaghfirollah hatta yardha. wassalam alaykom. please brothers pray for your brother and forgive him

قل إن تخفوا ما في صدوركم أو تبدوه يعلمه الله ويعلم ما في السماوات وما في الأرض والله على كل شيء قدير ( 29 ) )

( يوم تجد كل نفس ما عملت من خير محضرا وما عملت من سوء تود لو أن بينها وبينه أمدا بعيدا ويحذركم الله نفسه والله رءوف بالعباد ( 30 ) )[/quote]
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That's cool.
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[quote name='saleh.neji' timestamp='1338789616' post='116217']
From Wasil (brother hani knows):

[quote]after discussion with my father yesterday i see clearer now and i declare that i am a sunni upon the madhab of my tunisians forefathers and people. I bear witness that i am not a twelver in anyway and that i chose what allah chose after rasool allah : abu bakr then omar then othman then ali radhiallahu anhom ajma'een.
i apologize to hazrat abu hurairah radhiallahu anh and i declare that he was a truthful sahabi and a pious man who helped convey sunnah to us. i repent from attacking any sahabi no matter what he did as these are people allah(swt) chose for his prophet (saww). i don't want to enter any philosophical matters anymore and i am just one of the muslims and from the weakest among them. I apologize to any brother or sister i hurt his/her feelings intentionally and unintentionally and i forgive anyone who hurt me the same way. i testify that umm almomineen ayesha is my mother and i hope she forgives me so that allah forgives me. Allah is my witness that this is how i feel and this is my belief now. astaghfirollah from any stupid takfeer i did against any muslim astaghfirollah hatta yardha. wassalam alaykom. please brothers pray for your brother and forgive him

قل إن تخفوا ما في صدوركم أو تبدوه يعلمه الله ويعلم ما في السماوات وما في الأرض والله على كل شيء قدير ( 29 ) )

( يوم تجد كل نفس ما عملت من خير محضرا وما عملت من سوء تود لو أن بينها وبينه أمدا بعيدا ويحذركم الله نفسه والله رءوف بالعباد ( 30 ) )[/quote][/quote]
Praise to Allah. Great news. May Allah accept our tawba, make us better Muslims, and gather us all in the heaven. May Allah make every good thing easy for our brother Walid and us, and may He protect us from all evil.

Please pass this message to him. And say that I am personally going to pray for this man.
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Brother saleh ,

May Allah always keep on right way and forgive your all mistakes ,

My dua with you . now please turn to Defend Umhatul Momneen (ra) and Sahaba (ra) with your knowledge what you have.

Allah Bless you
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[quote name='Efendi' timestamp='1338795531' post='116222']
Praise to Allah. Great news. May Allah accept our tawba, make us better Muslims, and gather us all in the heaven. May Allah make every good thing easy for our brother Walid and us, and may He protect us from all evil.

Please pass this message to him. And say that I am personally going to pray for this man.[/quote]
wasil;

[quote]"jazakallahu ala alfa khairin akhi efendi. you are indeed better than me as you forgave me. i can't stop crying wallahi aldhim. i am sorry or all the insults and misbehaviour but you proved you are a million times better than me . I am an ignorant person. pray or me akhi efendi"[/quote]
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