Sign in to follow this  
Followers 0
Jhangvi

General Discussion: Debate - Farid vs Wasil

100 posts in this topic

Aslamalaykum,

@Wasil

InshAllah I hope your recovering from your illness, a message from brother hannibal which was posted today on the shia chat forum...........

[quote]zulfeeqar, on 19 June 2012 - 03:22 PM, said:

some psychotic illness lead to life threatening situations depending on their seriousness. i discussed with wasil two three years ago, and i felt that he was in serious state. a more common initial stage is that starting from siezure or spams. the root cause starting from deep depression and restlessness.

psychic illness leads to further complications in physical illness, and there is also a correlation, like a met a person on sunday and the person started from stress developed in to insomnia and then now having physical problems due to weight gain during insomnia...so complexity and further complexity.

so the wasil illness is neither spiritual nor physical, yet i feel its equally fatal like that of cancer or paralysis.

Spiritual illness is the worst. It sucks out the joy out of one's heart and the will to live. Anyways, one of his posts on kfc was brought to my attention. I think I might have went a little too far in saying he's not knowledgeable "at all" (although I still have my reservations about some of the posts and although I still think the debate was a waste of time, I still think he did better than his rival - which gets me wondering why he converted in the first place?).

Anyways, if he could read this, I'd like to apologize if I hurt him or made him feel under-appreciated in any way. Insha'Allah he can find tranquility in his heart some time soon (I will make dua for him).[/quote]
0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
assalam alaykom

jazakallah khairan akhi hannibal and may allah guide us all. the debate was not the reason i reverted at all. I defended sheikh ibrahim in a way that no other person did as far as i know. And also showed shortcomings of abu hurairah(ra) in hadith which i regret now because after all the man helped preserve the sunnah of the prophet greatly and i am nothing compared to him to even criticize him, and the debate seemed to me like the kind of "jadal" allah hates.



the reason i reverted is that i found myself having very paradoxical feelings inside me and big doubt about many issues. with my illness which is not just psychological but i don't want to talk about it , i realized how weak i am and i wanted to meet allah with the belief that is simple. i still believe in twelve imams from ali (as) till mahdi (as) but i also believe sahabah did good even if they did mistakes then who are we to judge them. as i said we took the love of abu bakr and omar and ayesha and othman ridhwan allahi alaihim from our mothers milks (arabic expression) and i want to meet allah without hatred or grudge against anyone especially people i grew up loving them ridhwan allahi alaihim.

in my illness as i told brother farid im sometimes a shia for an hour then a sunni for an hour and sometimes i am neither this or that .... brother when faced with severe trauma (may allah protect you) a man realizes how weak he is and how needy for allah's mercy he is.

i finish with the saying of imam juwaini on his deathbed and he was he was in knowledge etc , he said \: today i die upon the belief of old women of naisaboor.

ws
0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Aslamalaykum,

@Wasil

Salam,

I understand your concern. I think part of the problem with religiosity in general (whether you are Christian, Muslim etc.) is that more often than not, the gray spots are ignored and people are more comfortable with sitting in the black and white. When their absolutist positions are challenged, they often react very negatively to them. If there is something that history has taught me is that things are seldom black and white. For one, although I do have some serious problems with some of the companions, I am not of the opinion that they never did any good in their lives (I think a number of them did good, both intentionally and/or unintentionally). I think it is rare to find a human being to be of such pure evil where he has done nothing positive in his or her life. However, I also don't agree with the position that the companions were infallible on the practical level (i.e. theoretically they are not infallible, but in practice they are because every short-coming will be justified) as they did some really horrible things as well (which I don't believe we should just forget and leave it to the DJ only because these actions are still relevant till this day). This absolutist position on practical infallibility has been the position of the proto-Sunnis since the 700s C.E.

Given that Shi'ism and Sunnism developed in tense political and religious climates, it's not surprising that both of them historically ended up adhering to very rigid doctrinal positions (position of the Imams, Companions, created nature of the Qur'an etc.) that more often than not, didn't make historical sense. I suspect that (I could be wrong) that you, like most people (which I myself am included in), might have gotten stuck in these doctrinal walls and you may have realized that the Truth is not that simple and is perhaps somewhere nearer the gray area. The unfortunate part of the gray area is that one needs to accept the reality of doubt and know that certainty is not something that is found in polemics or books, but it is a Light that Allah puts into the heart of a believer (many Muslims can't accept doubt because of modern influences, so they'll come up with nonsense silly things like science in the Qur'an or miracle numbers in order to find a false sense of certainty).

Inshallah I'll pray the best for you and that you can find that tranquility and insha'Allah you can do the same for me!
[b]
By the way, if Wasil has an auto-immune disease (like Crohn's, UC etc.) which is usually associated with psychological stress, I can help with remedies as I have some good experience in that area (doctors are useless when it comes to AI diseases). [/b]
0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
[quote name='MuslimUnity' timestamp='1340895805' post='117560']
Aslamalaykum,

[/quote]

Walaikum Salam,


[quote]

For one, although I do have some serious problems with some of the companions,[/quote]


The problem is that you and shiism believe majority of of them became apostates/hypocrites/went astray. Isn't it?

[quote] I am not of the opinion that they never did any good in their lives (I think a number of them did good, both intentionally and/or unintentionally). I think it is rare to find a human being to be of such pure evil where he has done nothing positive in his or her life. [/quote]

Why don't you think the other way? why don't you say: It is rare to find good human being with no mistakes [u]instead of saying[/u] it is rare to find pure evil human being who has done nothing positive.

(Shia mentality).

[quote]
However, I also don't agree with the position that the companions were infallible on the practical level (i.e. theoretically they are not infallible, but in practice they are because every short-coming will be justified) as they did some really horrible things as well (which I don't believe we should just forget and leave it to the DJ only because these actions are still relevant till this day). This absolutist position on practical infallibility has been the position of the proto-Sunnis since the 700s C.E.

[/quote]
That is not true. We do believe that some Sahaba committed errors and sin.

It is Shiism that believe that there are 12 infallible people who are superior to Prophets of Allah and their job is more important than the Prophets (as).

[quote][b]By the way, if Wasil has an auto-immune disease (like Crohn's, UC etc.) which is usually associated with psychological stress, I can help with remedies as I have some good experience in that area (doctors are useless when it comes to AI diseases).[/b][/quote]

I think the only people who need treatment are those who associate partners with Allah (swt), believe that Imams are superior to Prophets of Allah, Imamate is higher than Prophethood, corruption of Quran, Takfir and Cursing of Sahaba etc.

May Allah (swt) grant success to brother Wasil (Walid) in both worlds. Edited by AbuMuslimKhorasani
0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Aslamalaykym,

Sorry for not making it clear, that message was from Hannibal.
0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Back to the Future....

Seems like [b][i]Wasil[/i][/b][size=4] a.k.a [/size][b][i]Walid[/i][/b][size=4] is again onto it. He recently opened a thread on [/size][i]his[/i][size=4] Forum, stating:[/size]

[quote][b]Al-bukhari and origins of mice[/b]

Salam
hadith from sahih al-bukhari:

[right][size=5]حدثنا موسى بن إسماعيل حدثنا وهيب عن خالد عن محمد عن أبي هريرة رضي الله عنه عن النبي صلى الله عليه وسلم قال فقدت أمة من بني إسرائيل لا يدرى ما فعلت وإني لا أراها إلا الفار إذا وضع لها ألبان الإبل لم تشرب وإذا وضع لها ألبان الشاء شربت فحدثت كعبا فقال أنت سمعت النبي صلى الله عليه وسلم يقوله قلت نعم قال لي مرارا فقلت أفأقرأ التوراة[/size][/right]

Narrated musa ibn ismaeel narrated waheeb from khalid from mohamed from abu hurairah from the prophet (saw) he (saw) said: a nation from bani israeel was lost , nobody knows what they did (bad he means) and i don't think they are now anything but the mice(!!!!!!!!!!), when the milk of camels is given to them they don't drink it.(hmmm) ...so i (abu hurairah) told kaab(ra) so he said: u heard the prophet(saw) saying this so i said : yes so he repeated many times (his question: kaab was a reasonable man and this shows his doubt about abu hurairah's hadith ) so i said: so do i read tawrah??

This is again from abu hurairah.
No comments !

[i]Source: [url="http://www.forumofislam.org/showthread.php?tid=476"]www.forumofislam.org/showthread.php?tid=476[/url][/i][/quote]

I would request brother [b][i]Farid[/i][/b] to enlight the viewers please.
0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
The Prophet (SAWS) himself is not sure, he says "I don't think they are now anything but the mice/rats" in other words he is likening them to the mice for a reason which I do not understand, it states:
"For if you put the milk of a she-camel in front of a mouse/rat, it will not drink it, but if the milk of a sheep is put in front of it, it will drink it."

The Prophet (SAWS) knew that Allah turned the Israelites to animals when they disobeyed, but one of their groups fate was not known to him nor was he informed of it, so he assumed they were the mice/rats since the meat and milk of the camels was forbidden for them.

Then apparently Allah would later inform the Prophet (SAWS) that those folks whom he turned to pigs and monkeys, they had no progeny and these animals were present before that event as was reported in another narration.
0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Assalamu Aleykum,

Wasil is back http://www.shiachat. com/forum/topic/235019364-my-debate-with-farid-exposing-the-lies/
0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
One of the most eye-opening results of the debate, imo, was the fact that Wasil was willing to make 1000 excuses for any strange-sounding hadith of Ibrahim bin Hashim, yet he wasn't willing to do the same with Abu Hurayrah (RA).

If there was a strange sounding hadith from Abu Hurayrah (RA) - e.g. Hadith regarding the Angel of Death and Musa (as) - Wasil would only be interested in mocking and slander.

Yet when a similar hadith was brought from Ibrahim bin Hashim - he would be willing to write 100 paragraphs in defense of him.

This is the very definition of hypocrisy.
0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Sign in to follow this  
Followers 0