Fatah-Momin

Is he a Muslim [Mirza]

59 posts in this topic

Hazrat Eissa is from Bani-Israel (as mentioned in the verses that i presented earlier).

He must have to born in ummat of Hazrat Muhammad (PBUH) to be ummati.

So follower of Mirza also belive of second born as hindu belive. Eissa(AS) didnot die, he not only ummati of Muhammad(SAW) but also bured beside Muhammad(SAW) in mediana.

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Hmmmm after long time Taking with Mirza kafir followers, i have been involved with this disucssion for quite long time.

Come to points see below and ready properly

Mirza claim himself as the Promised Messiah and Prophet of God. He has confused people about the nature of Prophethood and he has confused people about Jesus

It is not the cunfusion, there has always been two types of Prophes, one who brought Sharia and the others who followed the Sharia of their predecessors. Hazrat Musa brought a new Sharia and Hazrat Eissa followed the Sharia of Hazrat Musa.

Example Hazrat Yahya, Hazrat Haroon, and others who followed the Saria of their predecessors.

According to holy quran

Being the last Prophet in the chain of prophethood, no one ever shall now succeed him to that status of dignity.

"Muhammad is not the father of any of your men, but (he is) the Messenger of Allah, and the Seal of the Prophets: and Allah has full knowledge of all things."

(Holy Quran, 33:40)

Seal of Prophet does'nt mean last prophet. Kindly give me any reference from Arabic literature where the word "Khatim" is used and it mens the end or last one.

Another thing, the explanation of the above verse becomes "Muhammad is the not the father of any of your men because he is the messenger of Allah and he is the Last Prophet".

So it means if some one is the messenger of Allah, he can't be a father of any men ?

Hazrat Muhammad (PBUH) is not the father of any men, because he is the last Prophet ?

Can u explain the convept that you people derive from this verse.

If you think that this verse represents the last Prophet, then kindly give me any verse from Holy Quran (other than this verse) where it is written that Hazrat Muhammad (PBUH) is the best ever and superior Prophet among all the Prophets.

About the answers to your Ahadees references, kindly let me know that will Hazrat Eissa be back as a Prophet ?

Is it compulsory to belive on Imam Mehdi ?

See seal meaning in dictoriy

"From Saad bin Abi Waqqas, (Allah be pleased with him): said Allah's messenger Muhammad(SAW) to Hazrat Ali, (Allah be pleased with him) "You have the same relation with me as Aaron had with Moses (peace be upon them) except that there shall be no prophet after me".

(Sahih Bukhari Vol.2, p.633

From Abu Huraira, (Allah be pleased with him): Allah's messenger Muhammad(SAW) said:

the line of the Prophets has been terminated with me".

(Sahih Muslim, Vol.1, p.199, Mishkat, p.512)

The Last Brick

"From Abu Huraira, (Allah be pleased with him): Allah's messenger(SAW) said:

"Certainly my example and the example of prophets earlier than me is like the example of a palace most elegant and most beautiful constructed by a person except (that he left in it) a blank space for a brick in one of its corners and that made the people (who were) going around it wonder (at its marvellousness) and exclaimed (in perplexion): "Why not is this brick inlaid in here!" The Prophet(SAW) said, "I am that (corner's last) brick and I am the last of the prophets".

Sahih Bukhari, Vol. 1, p.501 & Sahih Muslim, Vol. 2, p.248

Address to Hazrat Ali

"It is related by Hazrat Thauban, (Allah be pleased with him) that our Prophet(SAW) said "In my Ummat there shall be born thirty liars, each of them will pretend that he is a prophet but I am the last of the prophets, there shall be no prophet after me".

(Abu Dawood and Tirmizi)

Hazrat Ali, (Allah be pleased with him) describing virtues of the Prophet SAW) says: "Between his shoulders was the signet of prophethood and he image008.gif was Khatamun-Nabieen".

(Shamail-e-Tirmizi, p.3

Mirza Ghulam, the founder of the organization, had attributed a tradition (Hadith) foretelling the appearance of the promised Messiah at the head of the 14th century to the Messenger of Allah(SAW). Can you prove such haidths about this.

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Solve the differences whereever you differ.

There must be 73 sects out of which one is one the right path (as mentioned in several ahadees in BUkhari), kindly prove to me that you belongs to that sect, i'll join you and will leave the wrong path. you just needs to prove it through Holy Quran.

Hmmm good you aleast pick up haidth from bukhari think of leaving and choosing correct path. let me tell you one thing Miraza followers are not one of 73 sects because they are non muslim.

And now who will be at right path

The true Muslim in any time period is the one who follows the Qur'aan and the authentic Sunnah upon the understanding of the Companions of the Messenger of Allaah, peace be upon him, and the scholars who have followed their way and will follow their way until the Day of Judgment.

Ahmdullah we are following sunnah and last prophet Muhammad(SAW) and his companions.

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Hazrat Eissa is from Bani-Israel (as mentioned in the verses that i presented earlier).

He must have to born in ummat of Hazrat Muhammad (PBUH) to be ummati.

Bani means tribe, and people of Arabia are sematic.[Jewish]

This again is not true to be Ummati you have to profess shahada "La hi laha Ilallaha, Muhammad RasoolAllah" this is all you need.

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if you dont understand descend then it is not my fault. where it is written he has died. check the meaning of descend.

lets suppose one second if we belive on your statment that messiah has killded as mention in quran according to your statment then can you asnwer why Mirza Mirza claim himself as the Promised Messiah if he has died as in your statment.

Here it is mentioned that all Prophets before Hazrat Muhammad (PBUH) died.

[3:145] And Muhammad is only a Messenger. Verily, all Messengers have passed away before him. If then he die or be slain, will you turn back

on your heels? And he who turns back on his heels shall not harm Allah at all. And Allah will certainly reward the grateful.

I've asked u earlier to tell me how many times the word "RAFA" is used in the Holy Quran.

You don't know it.

I'll tell you. its 25 times and in 23 places its meaning has been taken as Death while in 2 places (for Hazrat Eissa) meaning has been changed. Kindly tell me why?

If you dont have these answers, then accept it.

I've mentioned too many other verses as well. Its is not possible that there are conflicts among the verses in Holy Quran.

If you are correct, then give me the meanings for each of the verse that i've mentioned to you.

It is not a matter that for the time being you accept it that Hazrat Eissa is died. Its not my claim, its written in Holy Quran.

If you can prove from Holy Quran that He is alive then let me know.

You are having the beliefs against the Holy Quran.

Here what is being said about those who disagree to what Allah Say's in Holy Quran.

[2:41] But they who will disbelieve and treat Our Signs as lies, these shall be the inmates of the Fire; therein shall they abide.

[3:23] Surely, those who deny the Signs of Allah and seek to kill the Prophets unjustly, and seek to kill such men as enjoin equity

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So follower of Mirza also belive of second born as hindu belive. Eissa(AS) didnot die, he not only ummati of Muhammad(SAW) but also bured beside Muhammad(SAW) in mediana.

From where you think that these are correct concepts.

Hazrat Eissa will come and you will wait till his death that if he is being put into the grave adjacent to Hazrat Muhammad (PBUH) then you will believe that he is Hazrat Eissa ?

If you don't believe on the person, then will you let the person to be put into that grave ?

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Hmmm good you aleast pick up haidth from bukhari think of leaving and choosing correct path. let me tell you one thing Miraza followers are not one of 73 sects because they are non muslim.

And now who will be at right path

The true Muslim in any time period is the one who follows the Qur'aan and the authentic Sunnah upon the understanding of the Companions of the Messenger of Allaah, peace be upon him, and the scholars who have followed their way and will follow their way until the Day of Judgment.

Ahmdullah we are following sunnah and last prophet Muhammad(SAW) and his companions.

First justify your claims ?

On what basis you said that we are not Muslims ? Is there any definition written in Holy Quran from which you said that or its your own assumptions ?

Definiftion of Muslim:

[4:95] O ye who believe! when you go forth in the cause of Allah, make proper investigation and say not to anyone who greets you with the greeting of peace,

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See seal meaning in dictoriy

"From Saad bin Abi Waqqas, (Allah be pleased with him): said Allah's messenger Muhammad(SAW) to Hazrat Ali, (Allah be pleased with him) "You have the same relation with me as Aaron had with Moses (peace be upon them) except that there shall be no prophet after me".

(Sahih Bukhari Vol.2, p.633

From Abu Huraira, (Allah be pleased with him): Allah's messenger Muhammad(SAW) said:

the line of the Prophets has been terminated with me".

(Sahih Muslim, Vol.1, p.199, Mishkat, p.512)

The Last Brick

"From Abu Huraira, (Allah be pleased with him): Allah's messenger(SAW) said:

"Certainly my example and the example of prophets earlier than me is like the example of a palace most elegant and most beautiful constructed by a person except (that he left in it) a blank space for a brick in one of its corners and that made the people (who were) going around it wonder (at its marvellousness) and exclaimed (in perplexion): "Why not is this brick inlaid in here!" The Prophet(SAW) said, "I am that (corner's last) brick and I am the last of the prophets".

Sahih Bukhari, Vol. 1, p.501 & Sahih Muslim, Vol. 2, p.248

Address to Hazrat Ali

"It is related by Hazrat Thauban, (Allah be pleased with him) that our Prophet(SAW) said "In my Ummat there shall be born thirty liars, each of them will pretend that he is a prophet but I am the last of the prophets, there shall be no prophet after me".

(Abu Dawood and Tirmizi)

Hazrat Ali, (Allah be pleased with him) describing virtues of the Prophet SAW) says: "Between his shoulders was the signet of prophethood and he image008.gif was Khatamun-Nabieen".

(Shamail-e-Tirmizi, p.3

Mirza Ghulam, the founder of the organization, had attributed a tradition (Hadith) foretelling the appearance of the promised Messiah at the head of the 14th century to the Messenger of Allah(SAW). Can you prove such haidths about this.

About the LAST Brick, THEN why one OF the brick has been IN the sky (Hazrat Eissa, AS u claim that he IS alive)

Its mean that the Palace IS still NOT completed.

The meaning OF this ahadees IS that there wont be ANY NEW Religion. There won't be any Prophet who will bring new Sharia.

This IS what we believe on.

We present numerous Quranic verse that justifies your claim.

You also claim that Prophet will come (AS Hazrat Eissa will come AS a Prophet), so we do. but you dont say it.

There will be thrity liers ??

Against how many liars some literature IS written. How many liars NAME you know, who have claimed TO be a Prophet AFTER Muhammad (PBUH) ?

See attachments.

Now also say that they are non-muslims AS well.

Links.txt

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About the LAST Brick, THEN why one OF the brick has been IN the sky (Hazrat Eissa, AS u claim that he IS alive)

Its mean that the Palace IS still NOT completed.

The meaning OF this ahadees IS that there wont be ANY NEW Religion. There won't be any Prophet who will bring new Sharia.

This IS what we believe on.

We present numerous Quranic verse that justifies your claim.

You also claim that Prophet will come (AS Hazrat Eissa will come AS a Prophet), so we do. but you dont say it.

There will be thrity liers ??

Against how many liars some literature IS written. How many liars NAME you know, who have claimed TO be a Prophet AFTER Muhammad (PBUH) ?

See attachments.

Now also say that they are non-muslims AS well.

by accepting Mirza as prophet and promises as messhiah shows miraz bring new shariah and in this shariaha on order of british goverment he has forbideen jihad.

What else left.

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From where you think that these are correct concepts.

Hazrat Eissa will come and you will wait till his death that if he is being put into the grave adjacent to Hazrat Muhammad (PBUH) then you will believe that he is Hazrat Eissa ?

If you don't believe on the person, then will you let the person to be put into that grave ?

So you belive he has died accoring to mirza then why Mirza is condratcion about his own statment.

Can you prove

"Hence, I shall prove in this book that Jesus (Peace be upon him) did not die on the cross neither did he go up to the heavens nor it should ever be hoped that he will return to the earth from the heavens; rather, he died at the age of 120 years in Srinagar in Kashmir, and his grave is in the Khanyar Region of Srinagar."

(Maseeh Hindustan Mein, (Jesus in India) Roohani Khazain, vol.15, p.14) "Authentic narrations of hadith prove that our holy Prophet (pbuh) said in the person of Jesus two such qualities were combined which were not present in any other prophet. Firstly, he lived his full life, i.e. he was alive for 125 years. Secondly, he toured most of the parts of the world

Edited by tRUEMOMIN
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The Qadiyanis are very proud of saying that Mirza Ghulam Ahmad Sahib was the first man after so many years who said that Jesus (Hazrat Isa) (pbuh) did not go to the heavens ,but died on earth in Kashmir. Mr. Nasim Ahmad, who wrote "An Ahmadi Answers", said that Mirza Sahib first came to know from Allah about Hazrat Isa

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by accepting Mirza as prophet and promises as messhiah shows miraz bring new shariah and in this shariaha on order of british goverment he has forbideen jihad.

What else left.

Wow, what a lie.

Promised Masaih said that the so called Jehad that the maolvi say. Maulvi says everything IS jehad. this IS what IS happesinh IN the world now.

WHEN one DO jehad (According TO the wishes OF GOD) THEN GOD gives guarantee the success OF Jehad.

Why the Muslims now are losing every so called Jehads ??? Whay GOD IS NOT helping them ?

there are differecnt types OF Jehad, you people ONLY know killing AND still you lose everything.

There are certain requirements OF Jehad AND IF one OF the requirements does NOT fulfill THEN there IS no Jehad.

You kindly tell me WHEN jehad IS compulsory ?

I know you cant answer AS you have'nt answered my earlier questions as well. without answereing one queastion, you keep on asking another question.

FIRST solve one issue THEN move forward. But the problem IS that you dont have ANY answer.

you could NOT find ANY Quranic verse that supports your claim.

You can present me the the verse FROM Holy Quran about Jehad ? WHEN Jehad must be faught ?

Now you can also claim that the following shcolars have also presented NEW shariah AS they have also banned Jehad against the British Govt.

IF you dare, THEN READ some pages WHERE some OF your scholar has also banned the Jehad against the British Govt.

Maulvi Muhammad Hussain Batalvi

Sir Syed Ahmad Khan

Shibli Naumani

Khwaja Hassan Nizami

Go AND READ the ahadees carefully WHERE it IS written that WHEN Imam Mehdi will come, he will ban religious wars.

Links1.txt

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The Qadiyanis are very proud of saying that Mirza Ghulam Ahmad Sahib was the first man after so many years who said that Jesus (Hazrat Isa) (pbuh) did not go to the heavens ,but died on earth in Kashmir. Mr. Nasim Ahmad, who wrote "An Ahmadi Answers", said that Mirza Sahib first came to know from Allah about Hazrat Isa's natural death on earth in the year 1891.

Mr. Nasim Ahmad should know that Sir Syed had made a similar claim 9 years before, in the year 1882, in his Tafsir of Quran Majid.

Sir Syed wrote his Tafsir of Quran Majid in 6 volumes as follows (see page 335 of the book "Sir Syed Ahmad Khan" by Fazal Karim):

  • Part 1 in year 1880
  • Part 2 in year 1882
  • Part 3 in year 1885
  • Part 4 in year 1886
  • Part 5 in year 1892
  • Part 6 in year 1895

In part no.2, year 1882, in Sura Maida, verse no. 117, Sir Syed layed claim to the death of Hazrat Isa (pbuh). 9 years later in 1891, Mirza Saheb copied Sir Syed. Is it in good taste that Qadiayanis are boasting today about Mirza Sahib's plagiarism?

It IS absolutely rubbish that we claim that Mirza Sb was the FIRST man TO claim this. We give REFERENCES about the other scholars ourselves (AS i have given the REFERENCES earler)

You can find several REFERENCES AT www.[not allowed]

It IS the lie FROM you people who claim that what erver Mirza Sb has said, it was never said BY ANY one IN the 14 centuries.

Now, IF you know that Mirza Sb was NOT the FIRST person TO claim that Hazrat Eissa died, THEN DO present this point TO your so called Ulema's that there were some other scholars also who claimed that Hazrat Eissa Died.

About plagiarism, i think you dont know WHERE the term plagiarism IS used. plagiarism IS used WHEN some ones idea has been used BY ANY other person without his knowledge.

The claim that Hazrat Eissa died (BY other scholars) IS NOT their idea nor have they registered. IF they had THEN LET me know.

Iam saying again that you dont have a valid point, just running here AND there.

I CHALLENGE YOU TO PROVE THAT WE ARE WRONG THROUGH HOLY QURAN. (BUT YOU CAN'T)

Solve the differences whereever you differ.

[2:213] Mankind were one community, then they differed among themselves, so Allah raised Prophets as bearers of good tidings and as warners,

and sent down with them the Book containing the truth that He might judge between the people wherein they differed.

But now they began to differ about the Book, and none differed about it except those to whom it was given,

after clear Signs had come to them, out of envy towards one another. Now has Allah, by His command, guided the believers to the truth

in regard to which they (the unbelievers) differed; and Allah guides whomsoever He pleases to the right path.

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Wow, what a lie.

Promised Masaih said that the so called Jehad that the maolvi say. Maulvi says everything IS jehad. this IS what IS happesinh IN the world now.

WHEN one DO jehad (According TO the wishes OF GOD) THEN GOD gives guarantee the success OF Jehad.

Why the Muslims now are losing every so called Jehads ??? Whay GOD IS NOT helping them ?

there are differecnt types OF Jehad, you people ONLY know killing AND still you lose everything.

There are certain requirements OF Jehad AND IF one OF the requirements does NOT fulfill THEN there IS no Jehad.

You kindly tell me WHEN jehad IS compulsory ?

I know you cant answer AS you have'nt answered my earlier questions as well. without answereing one queastion, you keep on asking another question.

FIRST solve one issue THEN move forward. But the problem IS that you dont have ANY answer.

you could NOT find ANY Quranic verse that supports your claim.

You can present me the the verse FROM Holy Quran about Jehad ? WHEN Jehad must be faught ?

Now you can also claim that the following shcolars have also presented NEW shariah AS they have also banned Jehad against the British Govt.

IF you dare, THEN READ some pages WHERE some OF your scholar has also banned the Jehad against the British Govt.

Maulvi Muhammad Hussain Batalvi

Sir Syed Ahmad Khan

Shibli Naumani

Khwaja Hassan Nizami

Go AND READ the ahadees carefully WHERE it IS written that WHEN Imam Mehdi will come, he will ban religious wars.

Who said we are looosing jihad i think you have closed your eyes, see Few Taliban in aFGistan and 44 nation army there.

See what Nato commandor recelty said to PResident of USA. "we are looosing War in Aftanistan".

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So you belive he has died accoring to mirza then why Mirza is condratcion about his own statment.

Can you prove

"Hence, I shall prove in this book that Jesus (Peace be upon him) did not die on the cross neither did he go up to the heavens nor it should ever be hoped that he will return to the earth from the heavens; rather, he died at the age of 120 years in Srinagar in Kashmir, and his grave is in the Khanyar Region of Srinagar."

(Maseeh Hindustan Mein, (Jesus in India) Roohani Khazain, vol.15, p.14) "Authentic narrations of hadith prove that our holy Prophet (pbuh) said in the person of Jesus two such qualities were combined which were not present in any other prophet. Firstly, he lived his full life, i.e. he was alive for 125 years. Secondly, he toured most of the parts of the world

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