some1

Virtue of Sayyedina Abu Bakr Siddique (R.A) in Shi'ites Tafsir & Hadith

88 posts in this topic

In Surah 24:Nur Allah(swt) says:

22. Let not those among you who are endued with grace and amplitude of means resolve by oath against helping their kinsmen, those in want, and those who have left their homes in Allah's cause: let them forgive and overlook, do you not wish that Allah should forgive you? For Allah is Oft-Forgiving, Most Merciful.(Yusuf Ali).

22 And let not those who possess dignity and ease among you swear not to give to the near of kin and to the needy, and to fugitives for the cause of Allah. Let them forgive and show indulgence. Yearn ye not that Allah may forgive you ? Allah is Forgiving, Merciful.(Pickthall)

Shia tafisr Majma-ul-biyan says:

قيل إن قوله

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In the tafsir of Surah Taubah تفسير القمي الجزء1صفحة290 :

Ali Bin Ibrahim Qummi writes:

حدثنى ابى عن بعض رجاله رفعه إلى ابى عبدالله قال لما كان رسول الله صلى الله عليه وآله في الغار قال لفلان كانى انظر إلى سفينة جعفر في اصحابه يقوم في البحر وانظر إلى الانصار محتسبين في افنيتهم فقال فلان وتراهم يارسول الله قال نعم قال فارنيهم فمسح على عينيه فرآهم فقال له رسول الله انت الصديق

From this tafsir we understand that the title"Sideeq" was given to Sayyedina Abu Bakr siddeq(R.A) by Prophet(saw) in cave of saur.

Joh Sideeq koh na maney woh zindeeq hai

Some 1 I am quite surprised not because you have cited very weak report but because your brethen like Efendi and Fatah that actually do lot of Jirah over most traditions that is in praise of AhleBayt(as) but they don't apply the same rule when it comes to Sheikheen. Lolz.

Anyways this tradition is Dhaeef Jadda because the chain goes as:

Ali ibne Ibrahim narrates from His father from some men Ta Akhir.

Now we don't know who are these men. Either they are thiqa or they are Dhaeef?

So thus there are majhool narrators in this tradition that makes this tradition as Dhaeef.

Take one tradition for example from your books:

Allama Haithmi narrates in his book:

http://www.al-eman.com/Islamlib/viewchp.asp?BID=272&CID=131#s5

14302- عن رجل من بني أسد قال‏:‏ رأيت أبا بكر الصديق في غزوة ذات السلاسل، وكأن لحيته لهب العرفج على ناقة له أدماً أبيض نحيفاً‏.‏

رواه الطبراني ولم أعرف الرجل الذي من بني أسد، وبقية رجاله رجال الصحيح‏.‏

Alllama Haithmi writes that Tibrani narrated this tradition and I don't know about the person from Bani Asad . This is the same case that u have cited.

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Is it not the way of Tibrisi throughout the Majma ul biyan?

Edited by some1
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How about this in Nahjul Balagha?

Sermon 163:

You have seen as we have seen and you have heard as we have heard. You sat in the compan

of the Prophet of Allah as we did. (Abu Bakr) Ibn Abi Quhafah and (`Umar) ibn al-Khattab

were no more responsible for acting righteously than you, since you are nearer than both of

hem to the Prophet of Allah through kinship, and you also hold relationship to him by

marriage which they do not hold.

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Some1 Just a quick question before answering.

Is this Khutba authentic as per u?

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Some1 Just a quick question before answering.

Is this Khutba authentic as per u?

Whats the point of this question anyway? Is it unauthentic too now rofl?

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Don't laugh plz.

I am serious! Do u consider it as authentic or not?

YES or NO?

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Don't laugh plz.

I am serious! Do u consider it as authentic or not?

YES or NO?

Nopes.

Move on now.

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Nopes.

Move on now.

This Khutba is neither authentic as per my humble opinion when it comes to Sanad.

This Khutba is actually taken from Tareekh-e-Tibri.

Source: Tareekh Umum Wal mamlook, Vol no 3, pg no 376

http://www.yasoob.com/books/htm1/m024/28/no2811.html

If u see the sanad it goes as:

(وأما الواقدي) فإنه زعم أن عبدالله بن محمد حدثه عن أبيه

So this is an establised fact that this Kutba is taken from Sunni sources.

Muhammad ibne Umar Al-Waqdi is not praised by Shia scholars.

Note: If anyone can give sayings of Shia scholars that praised Waqdi then please let us know.

While Abdullah ibne Muhammad and his father seems to be Majhool.

As for Tabari, he is being criticized by Allama Murtaza Askari lot of times in many books such as "Abdullah ibne Saba and other myths". Thus this chain is not reliable.

If anyone can proves the authenticity of the above tradition then he is most welcome.

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This Khutba for me is Dhaeef per Sanad.

As for Matn, I didn't find anything to be proud of. It actually reveals that Ali(as) inspite of his difference is urging that Uthman should be more serious in his leadership and this is actually the commentary of Allama Zeeshan Haider Jawwadi.

Ali(as) said this because people were very incensed by the actions of Uthman. Ali(as) therefore didn't help them in creating chaos but rather insisted Uthman to be serious in his leadership.

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Lolz I had no doubt that you will come up with this.By the way If you read biblography

It is also found in:

(1) Al-Baladhuri, Ansab, V, 60;

(2) al-Tabari, Ta'rikh, V, 96, events of 34 H.;

(3) Ibn `Abd Rabbih, al-`Iqd, IV, 308, II, 273;

(4) al-Mufid, al-Jamal, 100;[shiekh mufid eh?!]

(5) Ibn Miskawayh, Tajarib al-'umam (1909), I, 478.

So not just Tabari is it?

Anyway You are the first person I have came acroos who considers Nahjul Balagha to be unauthentic.

Enjoy:

Those who raised doubts about the contents of Nahj-ul-Balagha were unaware of the high status and prestige of its compiler, both in the society and in the academic circles. A man of his eminence could not even think of fabricating sermons and letters in the name of Amir-al-Momeneen(a). Had any such attempt been made by anybody, Shia scholars themselves would have been the first to reject it, as an anthology of poetry attributed to Amir-al-Momeneen (as) (Diwan-e 'Ali) was never accepted by the majority of Shia scholars as authentic. Some other such works, for example, the commentary on the Quran attributed to al-Imam al-Hasan al-'Askari (as) or Fiqh al-Rida attributed to al Imam al-Rida (as), are at issue among Shia scholars. But no one among al-Radi's contemporaries or from the successive generations of Sunni or Shia 'ulama' ever questioned Nahj-ul-Balagha's authenticity for more than two centuries. Regarding the contents of Nahj-ul-Balagha the Muslim scholars of all shades of opinion never doubted al-Radi's veracity. They were aware of the presence of earlier sources of Amir-al-Momeneen's utterances. There is abundant reliable evidence in support of the existence of such collections in the first and second centuries of Hijrah, from which 'Abd al-Hamid ibn Yahyfi, Ibn al-Muqaffa', and Zayd ibn 'Ali ibn al-Husayn ibn 'Ali ibn Abi Talib had quoted al-'Imam 'Ali's(as) sermons and letters.

It is quite amazing that for 250 years no one questioned the authenticity of Nahj-ul-Balagha

Edited by some1
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This Khutba for me is Dhaeef per Sanad.

As for Matn, I didn't find anything to be proud of. It actually reveals that Ali(as) inspite of his difference is urging that Uthman should be more serious in his leadership and this is actually the commentary of Allama Zeeshan Haider Jawwadi.

Ali(as) said this because people were very incensed by the actions of Uthman. Ali(as) therefore didn't help them in creating chaos but rather insisted Uthman to be serious in his leadership.

Lets read again!

You sat in the company

of the Prophet of Allah as we did. (Abu Bakr) Ibn Abi Quhafah and (`Umar) ibn al-Khattab

were no more responsible for acting righteously than you,

Hmmm..Hes saying you along with the Sheikheen(R.A) acted righteously!! Do I need to quote a dictionary for meaning of this word?

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This is actually the only Sanad I can get, if u can locate any other Sanad for it then plz tell us.

Some1 U need to draw a clear line b/w Dhaeef and Mozou. I never said that this Sermon is Mozou but I doubt over its Sanad.

What you are excerpting is actually the response to those so called pseudo scholars that believe Nehjul Balagah as a forge work by Syed Razi(Rh).

I say that this Sermon's Sanad is doubtful to me.

I have mentioned why I feel this because all the narrators seem to be Ghair Imami while some of them are Majhool.

As for Matn then still righteously is used in different sense as you are thinking.

Some1 I feel pity on your way of thinking. You need to look at the context too then yap.

The context was the "All People getting angry over Usman's biased policy that includes giving luxuries to his own clan i.e.Banu Ummayah" so thats what Ali(as) said that Sheikhayn were not biased in this way.

One more thing since Sheikhayn were role model for Uthman therefore to actually cite egs of Role model of a person A even if a person B dislikes those role model then it doesn't actually prove the love of that person B to those role models for person A.

For instance if I give u eg of Jhangwi on one particular instance then it doesn't automatically mean that I like Jhangwi.

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In Holy Quran:

Surah lail or the night(92) Allah (swt) says:

17. But those most devoted to Allah shall be removed far from it,-

18. Those who spend their wealth for increase in self-purification,

19. And have in their minds no favour from anyone for which a reward is expected in return,

20. But only the desire to seek for the Countenance of their Lord Most High;

In shia tafsir Majma-ul biyaan it mentioned that this ayah refers to Sayyedina Abu Bakr(R.A).

قال أن الآية نزلت في أبي بكر لأنه اشترى المماليك الذين أسلموا مثل بلال و عامر

Lanatullah Alal Kadhibeen!

This is actually Sunni Tafseer that Allama Tibrisi quoted.

Let me give u the person who said this:

وعن ابن الزبير قال: إن الآية نزلت في أبي بكر، لأنه اشترى المماليك الذين أسلموا مثل بلال وعامر بن فهيرة، وغيرهما، وأعتقهم. والأولى أن تكون الآيات محمولة على عمومها، في كل من يعطي حق الله من ماله، وكل من يمنع حقه سبحانه

Source: Majma-ul-Bayaan, Vol no 10, pg no 376.

http://www.yasoob.com/books/htm1/m016/20/no2030.html

Ibne Zubair is the one that said this.

And by the way Ibne Zubair was not the lover of Ahle Bayt(as) at all, this is the Shia stance over him.

This is the reply I got from one of the brother:

Ibn al-Zubair was the one who encouraged Al-Zubair to fight Imam Ali(as) in Jamal with Aeysha. And by the way Al-Tabrisi rejected that tafseer if you were to continue the sentence he said "...And the more correct tafseer is that the verse is speaking in general about those who give portion of their wealth for the sake of Allah....", and if you were to continue reading on the same page you gave me, Al-Tabrisi puts forward a narration from Imam Al-Baqir(as) which gives the same tafseer Al-Tabrisi gave about those giving money in Allah's way.

One more thing for us The Tafseer of Imams(as) are Hujjat rather than pseudo scholars.

Imam Tibrisi usually used to cite different points of view over a particular Ayat.

This is the Tafseer of Seyuti:

وأخرج الحاكم وصححه عن عامر بن عبد الله بن الزبير عن أبيه قال: قال أبو قحافة لأبي بكر: أراك تعتق رقاباً ضعافاً فلو أنك إذ فعلت ما فعلت أعتقت رجالاً جلداً يمنعونك ويقومون دونك، فقال: يا أبت إنما أريد وجه الله، فنزلت هذه الآية فيه: { فأما من أعطى واتقى } إلى قوله: { وما لأحد عنده من نعمة تجزى إلا ابتغاء وجه ربه الأعلى ولسوف يرضى }.

وأخرج البزار وابن جرير وابن المنذر والطبراني وابن عديّ وابن مردويه وابن عساكر من وجه آخر عن عامر بن الزبير عن أبيه قال: نزلت هذه الآية { وما لأحد عنده من نعمة تجزى إلا ابتغاء وجه ربه الأعلى ولسوف يرضى } في أبي بكر الصديق.

http://altafsir.com/Tafasir.asp?tMadhNo=2&tTafsirNo=26&tSoraNo=92&tAyahNo=15&tDisplay=yes&Page=5&Size=1

Thus Tibrisi(rh) actually cited Ahle Sunnah Tafseer.

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Lolz You are making me hell of confused.So please tell me what is that you mean when you say that sanad is weak? When your attacks on sanad of Nahjul Balagha doesnt make any difference to the matn.Then why will it do on the other cases you cite? I mean like narrations of tafisr majma ul biyan,tafsir qummi in this and also in the thread Can any shia explain this? Thats why I said saying weak is a scapegoat.

You are putting your on words in Sayyedina Ali(R.a)'s mouth.He said that like Shiekeen(R.A),yours preceeders,acted righteously.You should act too.

If the reason is only to mention was giving luxries to Banu Ummayyia then What is the reason to say this? "You certainly know what we know, we have not come to know anything before you which we could tell you; nor did we learn anything in secret which we should convey to you. You have seen as we have seen and you have heard as we have heard. You sat in the company of the Prophet of Allah as we did.

since you are nearer than both of them to the Prophet of Allah through kinship, and you also hold relationship to him by marriage which they do not hold".

Regarding the example you cited,well if the Person B did some good stuff only then I will quote the example.Which ultimately means Shiekheen(R.A) did act righteoustly that is why He gave thier example.

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